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I'v just got a job set up working in the coffee bar in the Kelvingrove art gallery/museum so I'v managed to have a wee sneak peek at whats in there before the official opening 2moro...

 

There is a section that has some artifacts assocciated with both sides of the historic religious devide in glasgow, ie pictures of the pope and a china figure of King billy... which is definately part of glasgows history and I can understand why they would include it as it is meant to be a great new tourist attraction for glasgow and scotland and so gives some history of the city...

 

but one thing i found rather controvertial (especially as the museum will have the backing of Joke mcconnel and the scottish parliament) is the blantant assocciation they make with the 2 football clubs of rangers and c*ltic. I wonder if the club has been consulted about this, especially as we are trying to erradicate the 'direct link' as it were, without losing the history of it.

 

basically i find it hard to believe that rangers would agree to having a rangers scarf in the same cabinet as an orange sash where they link the two, especially after recent months...

 

Should the club be made aware of this?! what do you guys think? am i being too PC??

 

Andy

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I'v just got a job set up working in the coffee bar in the Kelvingrove art gallery/museum so I'v managed to have a wee sneak peek at whats in there before the official opening 2moro...

 

There is a section that has some artifacts assocciated with both sides of the historic religious devide in glasgow, ie pictures of the pope and a china figure of King billy... which is definately part of glasgows history and I can understand why they would include it as it is meant to be a great new tourist attraction for glasgow and scotland and so gives some history of the city...

 

but one thing i found rather controvertial (especially as the museum will have the backing of Joke mcconnel and the scottish parliament) is the blantant assocciation they make with the 2 football clubs of rangers and c*ltic. I wonder if the club has been consulted about this, especially as we are trying to erradicate the 'direct link' as it were, without losing the history of it.

 

basically i find it hard to believe that rangers would agree to having a rangers scarf in the same cabinet as an orange sash where they link the two, especially after recent months...

 

Should the club be made aware of this?! what do you guys think? am i being too PC??

 

Andy

 

Andy, what is sectarian about the Orange Order? Whether Rangers should be linked with the OO is another arguement. Ibrox was once a regular venue for OO meetings etc (along with Church / Boys Brigade and athletics meetings) so there is a 'connection'.

 

As long as the exhibition shows that the religous links are being eradicated (as religion is sadly from society) and that whilst both clubs used to have a link with one religion, both are taking strides to become inclusive (well, we are :) ).

 

I can not believe that this country is so quick to apologise and distance itself from relgion. Scotland was at the forefront of religous freedom and liberty, this is something that we should celebrate rather than apologise for (however, whether this should be linked to football is another question).

 

Cammy F

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I appreciate the difference, but sadly many dont. so people will just see it as rangers being linked with the sash and so being biggots etc... really the problem is a lack of education on the subject, which the wee labels dont even begin to cover!

 

Just thought id let folk know, maybe go have a look if you want! Iv not been able to look properly, as iv meant to be working, but will maybe try if im allowed to on my break!

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Andy, it is a very interesting post and comment - and It'll be interesting to read other posters thoughts on the topic

 

However, I still don't see how anyone would equate an Orange Sash, or even the OO and Rangers to bigotry.

 

It is a thorny subject, but to move forward, we can no longer ignore this and have to have an open and frank discussion about the links between Rangers, loyalism, unionism and Presbyterianism.

 

In fact, if we were to truely and openly celebrate the positives of Rangers, loyalism, unionism and Presbyterianism and educate the fans about the positives, it would spead up the eradication of the anti-catholic stuff that currently infests some of our support.

 

For instance, if you were to read the pledges of the OO you would see that members are urged to respect all other religions.

 

In an ideal world, religion would be seperate from football, but this isn't an ideal world and all over the world, football clubs are supported due to political, religous and racial believes as well as footballing ones.

 

Also, lets not forget, or let anyone taint what a humble beginning we came from. We were established by a group of friends who wanted to play football and decided to start a football club which is turned into one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

Cammy F

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It is a thorny subject

 

You are very right! I also believe that many people who do not truely care for religion, or belong to organisations such as the OO taint the names and reputations of both and basically use it as an excuse to cause trouble.

 

and so when people who are not aware of the whole picture see for example a sash, they associate it (wrongly) with sectarianism and trouble. I know my mum does anyway! and I find this display slightly controvertial as it seems to me it will reinforce the misassociation in many uneducated peoples minds.

 

We will soon see if anything is made of it, or im just making a mountain out of a molehill!

 

Andy

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i really don`t have aproblem with this.

 

why should rangers HIDE where they originated from?

 

i don`t think theres any denying that rangers wouldn`t be the force they were without the backing of protestants from glasgow and n.ireland.

 

yes, some people may get in a fuss about this, but this is the truth of where we came from.

 

the clubs owners are attempting to redirect the club and it`s fans now because it`s obviously not safe to be like we are with uefa watching over us 24 hours a day, but imo this is a good learning place for people who would like to learn or are ignorant of what precisely we are!

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why should rangers HIDE where they originated from?

 

but this is the truth of where we came from.

 

Colshy, Rangers were established by a group of youths who loved the game and wanted to establish a football club - at that time, there was no link to any relgion or organisation.

 

However, when the Irish migration started, the Protestants from NI and locally did chose Rangers, as Craptic were an established Catholic club.

 

the clubs owners are attempting to redirect the club and it`s fans now because it`s obviously not safe to be like we are with uefa watching over us 24 hours a day, but imo this is a good learning place for people who would like to learn or are ignorant of what precisely we are!

 

That is a very one-sided way of putting it - where in our history or tradition is it stated that we sing about being up to our kness in fenian blood or fucking the pope?

 

UEFA wouldn't have a problem with our songs / history and tradition if we stuck to songs that celebrated 'our culture' whilst respecting others.

 

Cammy F

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Andy, it is a very interesting post and comment - and It'll be interesting to read other posters thoughts on the topic

 

However, I still don't see how anyone would equate an Orange Sash, or even the OO and Rangers to bigotry.

 

It is a thorny subject, but to move forward, we can no longer ignore this and have to have an open and frank discussion about the links between Rangers, loyalism, unionism and Presbyterianism.

 

In fact, if we were to truely and openly celebrate the positives of Rangers, loyalism, unionism and Presbyterianism and educate the fans about the positives, it would spead up the eradication of the anti-catholic stuff that currently infests some of our support.

 

For instance, if you were to read the pledges of the OO you would see that members are urged to respect all other religions.

 

In an ideal world, religion would be seperate from football, but this isn't an ideal world and all over the world, football clubs are supported due to political, religous and racial believes as well as footballing ones.

 

Also, lets not forget, or let anyone taint what a humble beginning we came from. We were established by a group of friends who wanted to play football and decided to start a football club which is turned into one of the biggest clubs in the world.

 

Cammy F

 

Cammy, it does not matter what is written in a book or you say your principles are if you don�t live up to them. Ask Fernando Ricksen.

The Orange order has allowed it�s members to be seen drinking to excess in public parks with it�s members causing trouble and intimidating passers-by. FTP and Fenian ba**ards is more of a norm than a rarity. That is what the public see not a loving church going community.

Hating Catholics seems to have become more important than following their own religion.

As for Rangers supporters it is time to return to:

I love to see the lassies with they�re blue scarfs on. And not orange sashes.

I love to hear the boy�s all roar: and not shout FTP or fenian ba**ards

And i don�t have to tell you whats the best of all we love to see the Rangers score.

No we should not forget our history, we should not forget how Rangers FC was formed or led to 51 league flags. We should not forget Bill Struth or even big Eck for that fact.

What we should forget is the pure verbal hatred that has been shouted at Ibrox for many years.

 

Colshy i really can�t believe some of the crap you spew. UEFA nor Rangers want to take away our heritage, or our political beliefs, or our religous beliefs. They want to stop the verbal hatred that is being chanted. If you want to join the OO then you are totally free to do so. If you want to join the British party you are also free to do so. Yes you can even be a catholic and support Rangers. All they want, is us to stop chanting FTP and singing a song that is seen as abusive to outsiders. If shouting FTP is your heritage, or where you come from as you say, then you want to be a patient in your ward and not someone tending the sick.

 

Football clubs or FIFA are not killing the churches. Modern attitudes and better scientific knowledge are. And boring 1.5 hour services.

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Colshy i really can’t believe some of the crap you spew.

 

if you don`t like it then dont read it.

 

i`m becoming rather bored with your turgid `you talk pish` posts.

whats the matter, nothing else to do in your boring little life?

 

also, you really ought to examine some of the absolute tosh you put up. don`t really think many people read it as it`s so outdated. a bit like yourself;)

 

 

 

UEFA nor Rangers want to take away our heritage, or our political beliefs, or our religous beliefs. They want to stop the verbal hatred that is being chanted.

 

tell you that themselves did they?

 

mr. murray and mr blatter bump into you in the north sea on a rowing boat and explain to you why they want to change the course of scottish football did they?

 

If you want to join the OO then you are totally free to do so.

 

what the hell have they got to do with it?

 

unless, you have a stereotype of me in your head?

 

i didn`t mention the oo i merely said that rangers and protestanism has been hand in hand for decades. which it has!!

 

thanx for the advice though

 

If you want to join the British party you are also free to do so.

 

again, why bring them into it?

 

i presume you mean the british national party? the party leader are you?

 

why you saying this to me when i never mentioned anything to do with them.

 

you really do have a stereotype of me don`t you? dream about me often do you?:rolleyes:

 

Yes you can even be a catholic and support Rangers.

 

wow!!!

 

thats an amazing fact.

 

paul le guen will be pleased about that.

 

some people must think i want rangers to be a dinosaur with no foriegn or catholic players?

 

again, stereotyping?

 

All they want, is us to stop chanting FTP and singing a song that is seen as abusive to outsiders.

 

who are these outsiders you are on about?

 

why are they so special in your book?

 

what point to rangers fans have to prove to "outsiders"?

 

 

If shouting FTP is your heritage, or where you come from as you say, then you want to be a patient in your ward and not someone tending the sick.

 

ah thats nice!

 

being prejudiced against the invalid now.

 

your as good as saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a `mental case` then?

 

who says i shout ftp?

 

your really on form tonight.

 

i`m beginning to form my own stereotype about you now:admin:

 

Football clubs or FIFA are not killing the churches. Modern attitudes and better scientific knowledge are. And boring 1.5 hour services.

 

another amazing fact.

 

wake me up when your finished :yawn:

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