Fans funding for financial situation

[calscot 0]

Difficulties with fans owning the club to be overcome are:

 

1. Almost impossible to have a large overdraft with no guarantor.

2. Who would be chairman and run the club? The RST have already gone into meltdown over power struggles. A chief executive would have to be appointed, but would he be sacked every few months?

3. How do you separate the whims and wishes of fans from realistic and tight running of the club? Would a manager be undermined by the fans just like an interfering owner such as Romanov?

[craig 5,199]

Difficulties with fans owning the club to be overcome are:

 

1. Almost impossible to have a large overdraft with no guarantor.

2. Who would be chairman and run the club? The RST have already gone into meltdown over power struggles. A chief executive would have to be appointed, but would he be sacked every few months?

3. How do you separate the whims and wishes of fans from realistic and tight running of the club? Would a manager be undermined by the fans just like an interfering owner such as Romanov?

 

Use the Ebbsfleet business model :fish:

[maineflyer 0]

Mainflyer, my post was meant to be taken as a recue package that would rid the club of him, as so many people continue to say 'well, who would you bring in if Murray willingly went?'

 

I think the fans could rescue Rangers, but they would all have to agree to certain terms and be flexible, as people like yourself would probably find things they didnt like and continue to keep their cash.

 

I think most fans would give it a go if Murray went and we had someone in control of finances who knew what they were doing, and, as i said, the fans knew the debt was wiped and the money was going on transfers and wages.

 

I'd immediately go back to supporting the club financially if and when Murray sold up and left the club completely. That would include buying shares or otherwise contributing to the club's finances. But not while Murray remains at the club. Mind you, my finances wouldn't save or condemn the club - but there are people out thewre whose financial clout would make a difference. Some of the I know are equally unprepared to be associated with David Murray in any way whatsoever.

[Zappa 0]

Difficulties with fans owning the club to be overcome are:

 

1. Almost impossible to have a large overdraft with no guarantor.

2. Who would be chairman and run the club? The RST have already gone into meltdown over power struggles. A chief executive would have to be appointed, but would he be sacked every few months?

3. How do you separate the whims and wishes of fans from realistic and tight running of the club? Would a manager be undermined by the fans just like an interfering owner such as Romanov?

Your 1st point is a complete show-stopper. No way a club like rangers can survive without serous financial security, which is something I doubt the fans can ever provide & without a huge overdraft facility the club would be into administration & cease to exist within 3 years TOPS.

 

Your 2nd point is also a real worry in any concept of fans running the club & probably a show-stopper as well IMO. In-fighting & power struggling amongst the people with more clout would undoubtedly be a major major issue as there's a lot of seriously inflated egos floating around. The supporters rarely agree on issues which they don't have any control of & I see no reason why the divisions of opinion wouldn't widen even further if the support were to have any measurable control. Obviously there would need to be some kind of democratic system put in place for decision making, but ultimately I see it as being riddled with problems over & above the inevitable bickering & unrest.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that no matter how well thought out & set up, fans somehow having complete control of the club rather than a wealthy businessman or financial investor, would spell THE END for Rangers, the complete downfall of the club. You think this transfer window's been a 'fire-sale'??? Well you better think long & hard about what it could be like.

[Gers4Life 0]

I wonder if SDM is asking himself how many season tickets will be renewed and if any seats will be increased to bring in more income!!

[Big Spliff 0]

Your 1st point is a complete show-stopper. No way a club like rangers can survive without serous financial security, which is something I doubt the fans can ever provide & without a huge overdraft facility the club would be into administration & cease to exist within 3 years TOPS.

 

Your 2nd point is also a real worry in any concept of fans running the club & probably a show-stopper as well IMO. In-fighting & power struggling amongst the people with more clout would undoubtedly be a major major issue as there's a lot of seriously inflated egos floating around. The supporters rarely agree on issues which they don't have any control of & I see no reason why the divisions of opinion wouldn't widen even further if the support were to have any measurable control. Obviously there would need to be some kind of democratic system put in place for decision making, but ultimately I see it as being riddled with problems over & above the inevitable bickering & unrest.

 

I'm absolutely convinced that no matter how well thought out & set up, fans somehow having complete control of the club rather than a wealthy businessman or financial investor, would spell THE END for Rangers, the complete downfall of the club. You think this transfer window's been a 'fire-sale'??? Well you better think long & hard about what it could be like.

 

IMO, its all possible but the points raised here are all huge ones.

 

Capital and security are a pre-requisite. The organic fan-ownership model may work over a couple of lifetimes at the current pace, but its obvious that it's going nowhere fast and isnt going to make a dent in itself. What is needed is for a large injection from a group/groups, supplemented by supporter cash. The starting point needs to be sufficient to clear the decks and provide reserves. This could perhaps be structured over a period of time in the right conditions.

 

An executive board would need to be elected, probably based on share ownership. Provided no shareholder had too much control this shold not necessarily be an issue - albeit a difficult transition. There needs to be a handful of real LEADERS involved, people who can demonstrate their credibility and credentials to the rest of the support and other shareholders. The Exec board goes up for re-election periodically. It appoints a management team, a professional management team which runs the club, from marketing to operations, to finance, to football. The Exec board hire and fire.

 

I know it takes a leap of faith, but without that and a plan to go forward what else have we got? SDM, or the next SDM? No thanks.

[Bluedell 5,366]

I'd agree, Spliff. Good first post. Our current borrowings are secured internally and it would be possible to similar in the future.

 

Not an easy thing to do, but not impossible.

[Guest John Lawrence]

In response to numerous posts on this topic - not solely the quote I have above.

To address the first point, with regards fan contributions to the club, it is clear that season ticket money and merchandising etc serve simply as an income stream for the club. No top-tier, professional club on this planet would break even (nevermind profit) from this income alone. I don't wish to patronise anyone with the basics of Finance with respect to a football club but there are a number of issues arising from this topic. At the current time, regardless of your stance on SDM's mismanagement or otherwise, there are a few simple facts:- Rangers football club is in debt to the tune of 30 million (Don't delude yourselves to how serious this is!!), Factions of the support are striving to exert influence to change current circumstances and meanwhile through all of this the product on the park is suffering.

 

As alluded to above any football club obviously needs a variety of income streams in order to maintain its financial commitments and fluidity. Unfortunately for Rangers all income streams currently flowing into Ibrox are at their maximum with absolutely no other mainstream possibilities to further them. This obviously presents some fairly clear problems, top of which is the standard of player on offer. Regardless of anyones opinion of WS's player aquisition skills, it is an indisputable fact that there IS NO MONEY available to strengthen the squad, given the circumstances outlines above.

 

What I'm suggesting is a fund solely for the purposes of player procurement. This would be intended for absolutely nothing else! I appreciate and understand the view by some that their season ticket/ merchandise contributions should be ample. However, unfortunately X amount of pounds only buys you X amount of product and when that fund is dry, no matter how hard you try, you can't squeeze any more out.

 

This is where we find ourselves and it is my opinion that a Fund should therefore be created and any willing contributors most welcomed. This would be independant to allay fears that SDM would control any allocation. As I've said already I understand fans opinions with regard to putting yet more money into the club, if they've already significantly contributed, but the time now is for as much support as possible, particularly financially.

[Zappa 0]

Capital and security are a pre-requisite. The organic fan-ownership model may work over a couple of lifetimes at the current pace, but its obvious that it's going nowhere fast and isnt going to make a dent in itself. What is needed is for a large injection from a group/groups

 

I'm assuming that by 'large injection from a group/groups', you mean from corporate business? In what form though? The buying of significant shares or purely in the form of sponsorship deals? TBO, in the current climate, I can't see there being much chance of serious investors or potential sponsors banging on the door with offerings of substantial cash injection. I could be wrong though...

[Zappa 0]

What I'm suggesting is a fund solely for the purposes of player procurement.

 

It's an interesting idea John & I don't want to pi55 on your parade, but how on earth are the fans going to be able (never mind willing for the sake of discussion) to generate a fund substantial enough to help with buying players? The numbers just don't add up. Assuming you could somehow get a one off �£10 donation each from 50 thousand fans, that's only going to be 500 grand, which is essentially peanuts in the transfer market if the whole point of a 'player procurement fund' is to facilitate bringing in some more quality. A monthly �£10 donation X 50,000 would generate 6 million a year, but I seriously doubt that's remotely attainable by an organized fund independent of the Club. That leads me to think that the only reasonable & attainable solution to generating the income for bringing in some more quality would be to raise ticket prices & that's a move that most fans wouldn't be happy about unless there were defined guarantees that the price increase would be specifically for the generation of a fund/kitty solely for buying in players. Even then, I think that many fans would be disgruntled & feel that they're already paying enough for their tickets.