RabiDuck

Trying to understand the coefficient system and struggling somewhat!

At present Scotland have 27,875 points and are 14th.  We need to be in the top 15 for the second CL place.  That's the easy bit.

According to Wikipedia, points are awarded for various things, including 10,000 points for playing a game.  Something doesn't add up here!

In short, I think the situation is that if we outperform Copenhagen, or at least equal the performance of either Olympiakos or Basel, Scotland gain a second entry to the CL next season.  

Olympiakos play Wolves and Basel play either Salzburg or Frankfurt.  I'm not sure I see both of those sides qualifying through those games so we have a very good chance.

Of course, had Celtic done the business against Copenhagen, it would already be decided...

Reckon we could sign him up again?

1 minute ago, craig said:

I never saw the game so can't comment too much - but would that not be where we would expect to see Hagi playing ?

I think so, but with a single striker there's scope to play 2 in behind him perhaps.  A traditional diamond of LD,CD,CD,RD,LM,DMC,RM,AMC,ST,ST could be changed to LD,CD,CD,RD,LM,DMC,RM,AMC,AMC,ST and with Kent and Hagi in the AMC roles could be quite effective...  Pete always played best in that kind of role and I think Kent could be very similar in some sense

57 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

IMHO, Kent has the pace and the trickery to play in and near a main striker. I would not play him as a straight left winger though. I'd try him more centrally with a bit of freedom to move about, not least in games where we do not need 2 holding / defensive midfielders. Get Jones on the wing instead.

 

For some reason we do not utilize the second striker / shadow striker role efficiently enough. In nigh every game there is space between the penalty spot and the goalie that ain't occupied by an attacker when the ball runs loose from a save, failed clearance or the like. It need not to be an outright-poacher. Jason Holt ran in there brilliantly in his first season with us, before being played ever deeper. IMHO, a perfect spot for Stewart. We sure need someone that is willing to shoot. Hagi did that, Stewart at every angle. Too much play in the first half was build-up and attempts at playing through them, rather than having a shot. Same story in the last 3 games in fact. Of course, no-one would talk about this had Aribo and Alfredo sunk their efforts. Still, why does it need games like yesterday - when the going gets tough and the minutes become enemies - that we change formations and throw real attackers on.

Interesting, I've had similar thoughts.  I see similarities with Lovenkrands in him.  Plenty of pace and ability, but possibly wasted put out on the wing.  BRing him into the middle and let him run at defenders and see where he gets to...

Bring a striker in on loan... Given the gaffers contacts and the state of the EPL currently, Mo Salah doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do any more this season...

13 hours ago, BlackSocksRedTops said:

Banning credit cards to fund any online bets from April is a start. Not sure if that also means debit/bank cards. If not, that would be next. 

I understand the theory, but if you ban debit cards, how exactly would you look to deposit?  Banks prohibiting overdraft funds being used to deposit to gambling sites might work, keeping with the "no borrowing for gambling" angle that the credit card ban has started, but stopping people from depositing from debit cards seems unworkable...

The good news is I don't see much likelihood of either side dropping points until the end of season the way it's going.  If that holds then it's down to the 2 remaining OF matches.  If we can win one of those we should be champions...

17 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Having watched quite a lot of English football over the past 24 hours, I am damn sure I don't want VAR anywhere near the SPL.  The whole thing is a farce and would undoubtedly be worse up here, given the standard of the officials.

VAR the way that the EPL have implemented it isn't working.  However if it were to be used correctly for "clear and obvious errors" then it's much more viable.  Going forwards I think it's naturally going to become a challenge system as in other sports, so each team (through Captain or Manager) gets a set number of appeals (say 2 appeals with an extra one at half time so 3 in total, plus an additional for games that go to extra time).  Then you wouldn't be having constant VAR interruptions, a goal where the striker is offside by half an inch is unlikely to be referred except in desperation as it would throw away an appeal opportunity.  Done correctly it should be possible to make the system work. Done the way the EPL has done, it's doomed to fail.  Unfortunately for Scottish football it would need to have an intelligent implementation. Oh well!

14 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I think fans who want VAR should all chip in to pay for it.

 

Fair's fair.

Again, assuming that the vaguely remembered £5k figure is accurate, or approaching accurate, surely we can find half a million people interested in getting VAR in place in Scottish football willing to chip in a couple of quid?  On a more sensible approach, a balanced contribution from all 12 SPFL clubs would be 95k per club.  If the OF (being better off than others) were to shoulder more of the burden (say 25% each) it would be £285,000 to Rangers and Celtic and £57,000 to each of the others.  Another option, the TV deal struck in 2018 was for £160mill over 5 years, or £32mill a season.  Take it out of that!  IF (and it's a big if) my £5k figure is accurate or close to accurate, then it's very doable.  IF TV money was used for 50%, crowdfuning for 10% (from supporters) and weighted so OF pay 50% between them of the rest, then £171k for Rangers\Celtic and £35k for the other clubs...  I know there's not much money in Scottish football, but we should be able to manage that...

On 01/01/2020 at 12:35, ian1964 said:

Any idea what the cost would be?.

There is already good Sky/BT cameras in a lot of matches, why not have a monitor pitch side for the 4th official/assistant ref & managers? obviously not all games are covered but it's a start.

I recall reading somewhere an estimated cost of about 5k per match.  Across the SPFL that's 38 games per team, so a total of 228 matches.  Gives a total of £1,140,000 if the 5k figure is reasonable (and it doesn't sound too off the mark I suspect...)  Obviously we're not going to get big screens and everything for that, but a pitch side monitor, remote viewing office and some guys to man it plus cameras at all grounds sounds about right surely?

The Simunovic incident was referred and reviewed and it was determined there was no offence committed against Simunovic so the case dismissed?

It's certainly a tricky one, on the one hand discipline has to play a part and the form that Defoe is in makes it hard to argue against him retaining his place.  But at the same time, Morelos is in the running for golden boot and POTY and as a club surely we should be supporting our players striving for such accolades?

Sebo anyone?

8 minutes ago, pete said:

I am all for VAR but I think the VAR officials should make the final decision and not the referee. Having a referee trudge over to watch something the VAR officials have looked at from every angle possible is a waste of time. It is having teething problems and some decisions will still remain debated as it is an opinion and they differ from person to person. That is why I think a 3 man VAR team will at least give a majority decision.

Couldn't agree more.  The system that Rugby or Cricket uses is perfectly fine.  The reviewer(s) look at the data and make a decision that they communicate to the ref on the pitch who then takes the appropriate action.  Seems sensible to me!

"In October, linesman Calum Spence’s head was “burst open” after Gers fan thug Stuart McGaughay, 30, hit him with a coin at Livingston."

"And we told how Mr Beaton called in cops last week after getting threats when his mobile number was leaked online following the controversial Old Firm match at Ibrox."

Interestingly (or not!) a club is mentioned in one example incident, but not in the other.  I suspect that it wasn't Rangers fans unhappy with Mr Beaton after the OF game...

That being said, the coin incident at Livingston is unacceptable and not to be condoned regardless of the individuals affiliation.

20 minutes ago, DMAA said:

 Just enjoyed listening to the pre-game Sportsound podcast. It was amusing to hear them discuss which Rangers players would get into the Celtic team. Only Tav and McGregor for Scott McDonald and Billy Dodds. John Hughes breaks the mould and opts for Morelos up front and Scott McDonald is in shock when he says Arfield would make it in his midfield. "John come on! Come on! Instead of of who! Come on John". Very amusing ?

Interesting question, but which (if any) Celtic players would any of us take in the team right now?  I'm struggling to think of one, possibly Edouard as a second up top, but even then it's a stretch...

23 minutes ago, buster. said:

'What if's' are worth nothing but there are solid reasons as to why we drop points and more importantly, why they continue to happen too many times for it to be down to X or Y excuse.

 

Bigger picture

Things aren't that bad, if you employ realism regards timescales/budgets/starting points, etc.

 

The bigger picture is the key thing.  If you'd told me at the end of last season that we'd have had a group stage run of the EL and at this point of the season be only 6 points off the top, I'd have taken it.  Yes there's improvements to be made, but we're probably slightly ahead of where I figured we'd be at this stage after the difficulties of the last few seasons.

50 minutes ago, buster. said:

They are still a lot stronger than we are and wrt the title, it'll nearly always come down to squad depth (and quality).

 

It's not rocket science, we need quality (and more depth) but that tends to cost a lot of money and/or requires time to develop.

 

 

Also worth considering that without a silly loss to Livingston (Sep 30) and draws with Motherwell (26 Aug) and Hibs (19 Dec) we'd be top even allowing for their game in hand.  Those are games against (what are currently) the bottom 6 sides in the league.  This Celtic side are catchable if we can just perform against the other teams in the league, we just can't seem to do that.

48 minutes ago, buster. said:

They are still a lot stronger than we are and wrt the title, it'll nearly always come down to squad depth (and quality).

 

It's not rocket science, we need quality (and more depth) but that tends to cost a lot of money and/or requires time to develop.

 

 

Agreed, but it's Christmas, let's allow ourselves a day or two of unrealistic optimism before they spanner us at Ibrox and it's back to reality for the new year!!

14 minutes ago, buster. said:

This season, I think it's a case of needing Celtic to lose the league (relative implosion) rather than us being able to reach the level of consistency required to win it if they don't implode.

 

 

Not going to argue with that.  However, if we can pull together a string of results (starting on Saturday) we can perhaps put the pressure on and drive some of that implosion.  This Celtic side isn't as strong as they like to think.  The very fact that we're discussing a number of very poor performances from us and we're still only 6 points behind supports that view, I don't think it'd take much to tip them over the edge.  That being said, I wouldn't be betting against them winning the league again this year!

16 hours ago, Big Jaws said:

Its not negativity its fair comment based on our results statistics and analysis of the season so far.

 

Aug -  8/12

Sept - 6/12

Oct -  7/9

Nov - 9/9

Dec - so far  12/21 with one to play

 

We've dropped points home and away consistently each month except for November and we also lost 1-0 to Aberdeen in consecutive matches firstly in the League Cup and then at home in the league. Of the teams I'd expect to be in and around the top five our record is as it stands - loss away to Celtic, draw away to Aberdeen, loss away to Aberdeen (LC), loss home to Aberdeen, draw away to Hibs and draw at home to Hibs. Factor in the other away and home draws you start to see a pattern.

 

Its not negativity to discuss the teams inability to win against the top 4/5 teams in the league its a fact.

I agree with everything that you say, but the simple fact is that we're still in contention.  We need to do better and results haven't been good enough, but fortunately we've kept touch with Celtic.  Avoiding defeat on Saturday would be a massive boost and hopefully spur us on.  We're unlikely to win the league this year, I don't believe it was ever the serious intent, but we might just have a chance to do so...

37 minutes ago, DMAA said:

They’ve had plenty of injuries all season. They had a defensive crisis early in the season that cost them points before Benkovic came in and they’ve had terrible luck with their best goal scorer not himself most of the season and Dembele leaving too late for a replacement to come in. We’ve had more as usual but they’ve had their own problems. 

 

 

Hence the fact that despite all the doom and gloom we're only 6 points (theoretical on them winning their game in hand...) behind them.  As it stands, at least until Saturday, it's still in our hands to win the league.  Given some of the negativity (and yes, there are things that need to be addressed) we're not in such a bad position in the league, and a couple more transfer windows and time for SG to learn the trade (still his first year as a manager!) and we should be lining up a serious title shot next season, this season is about consolidating, pushing them as close as possible, and lining up another profitable European run next season.

A lot of negativity, and I agree with it to a point, we should be doing better against the "other teams" and not dropping silly points.  What's worth noting however is that we're 3 points and a game behind Celtic, so let's call it 6 points and not play the over-optimistic "points on the board" game.  We've played them once so against the "other teams" they're only 1 win ahead of us (assuming they win it, ok I can't help a little optimism!) so it's possibly not as bad as it first looks in some senses.  Yes, we're not going to win the league this year, but that was always a very hopeful aim. Can we stop 10 in a row? I think so!

40 minutes ago, DMAA said:

That's the second time Candeias has lacked the class we'd expect from a Rangers player in a short space of time, he refused to shake hands with Livingstone players not long ago. Taunting opposition players is the kind of thing you expect from the likes of Griffiths not a Rangers player.

But certainly not worthy of a yellow card...

1 minute ago, rbr said:

100% agree they wouldn't sell their shares , sorry our shares , that's why this email is ridiculous , someone at board level , probably our snake oil salesman of a company secratery has come up with this and the useful idiots at club1872 have doffed their cap .

The email relates to C1872 issuing a formal declaration that they won't sell at this time.  It seems sensible that the membership be consulted before such a communcation is given, if only to appease the TOP that it's a considered decision and not a unilateral one by the C1872 executive.