D'Artagnan

Imagine, just for a moment, the investigation into Rangers use of EBT's and the allegation of side payments, was not being undertaken by legal firm Harper MacLeod. Let us instead imagine that such investigation is being undertaken by a legal firm with a long standing favourable connection to Rangers.

Imagine further this legal firm saw fit to use the Rangers chief executive, and his personal testimony, to enhance the reputation of that company on their website.

I ask you to extend your imagination further to include a revelation that one of the partners undertaking the investigation had actually written the SFA articles and regulations, an alleged breach of which, was subject of that very investigation.

And then it was revealed that this said partner had stood up at a meeting in frustration and shouted at the other SPL members present that Rangers were innocent.

Furthermore that the list of sanctions or punishments being considered should Rangers be found guilty, were far less severe and less punitive than anything handed out to clubs before.

But now let your imagination run riot. With a revelation that the authorities undertaking this investigation had already declared Rangers not guilty without even charge or hearing.

And now the last bit of imagination. Can you imagine what the reaction would be to the foregoing ?

Let me help.

“Whitewash”. “Cover Up”. “Corrupt” “Conflict of Interests”.

And quite rightly too.

And yet, with a slight alteration to the characters, but not of course the facts, this is exactly the scenario faced by Rangers FC and their supporters.

It may come as a surprise to those outwith the Rangers support, that within our support there is a considerable desire and determination to see the truth come out. Rangers supporters, more than anyone else, want to know if one of our former owner's embarked on a course of action which showed utter disregard for the laws of the land, the laws of our game and the reputation of our club. The consequences which of course made our club virtually unsaleable, except to an individual whose stewardship brought it to its knees.

The problem is that the SPL hearing process is now so flawed its not only the Rangers support who have no confidence in it, but the club themselves who have refused to participate in the process. The smart money is on any result of Lord Nimmo's panel being challenged by Rangers via the courts of our land. I have little faith in this course of action furnishing us with the truth either however.

Once the Rangers legal team present the facts surrounding this whole investigation, I am of the firm opinion this will become a feeding frenzy for the press, but the spotlight will not be on our club but the many legal irregularities and questionable actions and conduct of the SFA and SPL throughout this process.

James Traynor's revelations this week have not helped matters either. His comments this week appear to suggest there were a whole host of payments to players in Scotland in “creative schemes” designed to avoid paying tax. All legal of course, but they appear not to have been declared to the Scottish Football Authorities as payments – the same charge levied against Rangers.

Rangers fans are seeking the truth, alas, it may be a long time coming. But we are also seeking justice. Equality before the law is a fundamental principle of both Scottish and European Law. If as Traynor alleges there are other instances of non-declared payments to players then the SFA and SPL are duty bound to investigate.

My fellow blogger Bill McMurdo recently described this scenario as being akin to the opening of Pandora's Box. Of course once Pandora opened the box there was no going back and despite her efforts to shut it, all manner of disease and pestilence had been released.

On closing it again the only thing Pandora managed to retain in the box was hope.

But Rangers fans will not hope the governing football authorities in Scotland administer justice with a full and thorough investigation into all undeclared payments to players.

We will demand it. And we will not stop demanding until we get it.

Scotland brace yourself.... a hurricane is coming.

Strong stuff Andy, well written. Well done.

 

The increasing 'importance' of football in the media in particular has been unhealthy for a while, the Terry/Ferdinand incident is simply another example of it. The FA's stance on the racism the England team has encountered at certain away games really compelled them to do something in this case lest they be accused of hypocrisy. Terry's position as England captain, a 'job' that still carries considerable clout and indirect financial reward also meant they couldn't be seen to ignore it.

That means the case was given far more scrutiny than a similar case featuring say Div 3 players would have been.

 

However football has courted the media, indeed it's now totally reliant on it, someone like Terry has become a multi-millionaire from the largesse of broadcasting, in reality he works for them. That being the case I've little sympathy for someone who behaves like it's the 1970s, he should understand what his job entails, every aspect of it.

Absolutely AMMS.

The media role is worthy of a discussion thread on its own. If we continue with the comparison to sectarianism its interesting to note that Prof Steve Bruce was particularly critical of them and the lack of responsibility for accurate reporting which caused a perception the problem was far greater than it was.

Having heard some of the evidence from the Levison enquiry, its frightening to consider that these people of such low moral or professional integrity, play such a pivotal role in how public opinion and perception is formed.

Ahhh your talking about Naismith here D'art,,,,,,,,,,,right?

Not in particular Cail but similar type incidents. I think the thrust of Andy's article is how we as a society react to allegations of racism, much in the same vein as how we in Scotland treat allegations of sectarianism. We go over the top with them to the point where decisions are made which are almost verging on being contrary to natural justice.

What were the FA supposed to do? I believe they've pushed the law of the land as far as they can in this instance, indeed I believe they have pushed it beyond what it can reasonably stand. I may personally have no doubt John Terry used the language he did in an abusive manner, but if it can't be proved in a court of law then I have no right to punish him, no matter how much I may wish to.

Its what happens Andy when you get two different standards of evidence to prove guilt.

The criminal court - Beyond Reasonable Doubt

The FA - Balance of Probabilities

But would have been interesting to have seen if the FA would have run with it had it merely be an assault charge for an off the ball incident with no racial element.

It's the gloves that have always puzzled me, what's with them?

Well with us all being "knuckldraggers" its so we dont cause any injury from our calloused hands during a cross hand boogie.....

Not much of a dilemma for me...not 'one thin dime' to any SPL club or the SFA now or forever. If we lose games due to lack of support, well, I'm prepared to take that as part of the price. No Cup Finals, no u-21 games, nothing.

 

Not that I'm one to hold a grudge.

 

I can't see boycotting these people leading to our own destruction, though. Might lead to some of theirs, who knows. Do I care? Not any more.

Read this on another forum...succint summation.....

As I said last week, the best way of supporting Rangers against an SPL side is NOT to give the SPL side any of your money.

Id say Andy that we "traditionalists" would win any fight which would define who was the most homo. After all we sing The Sash.......

I believe theres more on this chilldebear on Leggo's blog. Seems he wants to have the RTC lot as a regular column.

'Unified Supporters Platform'

 

Who met and decided this Statement should be drawn up?

 

Why do they never put their names on these pronouncements?

The Rangers Supporters Assembly

The Rangers Supporters Association

RangersUnite

Rangers Till I Die N.I

Vanguard Bears

Copland Road.org

Blue Heaven

Union Bears

Number One Fanzine

Its at the bottom of the statement chilldedbear.

That is correct but it doesn't qualify as "trying to destroy us?" never mind"poisoned hatred and unrepentant vitriol".

The statement actually says "supporters and certain hierarchy of SPL member clubs"

There are plenty of supporters out there determined to see us destroyed. Their determination to argue that our club has died and that we are a new club with no history should provide you with ample evidence of that.

Our supporters have waited patiently for apt opportunity to respond to some of the poisoned hatred and unrepentant vitriol directed, both at them and the club, by starving SPL clubs of much-needed cash.

Ive spoken to quite a few Bears who feel that way.

As for SFL1 - do you mean the sham of "$porting £ntegrity" ?

Motherwell & Kilmarnock... as well as other clubs voted the way they did because of pressure from their support - despite the financial projections which were made available.

The Eagle and the Arrow

An Eagle was soaring through the air when suddenly it heard

the whizz of an Arrow, and felt itself wounded to death. Slowly

it fluttered down to the earth, with its life-blood pouring out of

it. Looking down upon the Arrow with which it had been pierced,

it found that the shaft of the Arrow had been feathered with one

of its own plumes. "Alas!" it cried, as it died,

"We often give our enemies the means for our own destruction."

Its perhaps strange that this Aesop's fable should be the preamble to discussion on the United Supporters Platform Statement, calling on Rangers fans to boycott the next League Cup match, should it feature an away trip to an SPL ground.

Of course the statement itself produces a multitude of dilemmas for the average Bear. The thought of our team travelling up to the likes of Tannadice with no vocal backing or support is not a pleasant one at all. In fact its nothing short of horrendous.

But then I remembered there would probably not have been any Rangers, never mind a cup tie had those SPL clubs and their support had their way. Having failed to kill us off they are now actively seeking to airbrush our history with a hearing, the outcome of which was already decided last June, when persons unknown tried and convicted Rangers without charge.

Furthermore despite their hatred, having rejected our application to re-join the SPL ( which appears to have been incorrect procedure in itself, if Lord Nimmo's recent comments are in fact accurate) they then attempted to bully and intimidate the SFL into parachuting us into SFL1.

And all this was done under a so called banner of â??Sporting Integrityâ?.

Yes the thought of Rangers travelling to an away ground without support is horrendous.

But not as horrendous as the thought of my ticket money being used to pay the Harper MacLeod legal bill for the SPL witch hunt into my club.

Did the last orange coloured top which was released not prove to be the best selling Rangers top of all time ?

Geographically they were raised in central Scotland and culturally they have an interest in football and were given a nominal 'Protestant' upbringing or raised with no religion at all.

But surely that doesnt mean they would necessarily gravitate towards our club ? Clyde, Airdrie, Partick Thistle or Queens Park etc may take issue with that !!

In many ways they should be natural Rangers supporters, their geography and cultural upbringing should lead them to favour us.

AMMS

Could you elaborate on that for me please.

Paul Hartley is their manager.

Shucks...guess the Village People's YMCA is a non starter then .....

Haven't retraced all of this, but wasn't it just one chap describing the OO as sectarian? Obviously, emotions run high here, but by default (and not least the current-day-West-of-Scotland default) the Orange Order is a Protstant only organisation ...

 

 

 

... and thus behaves sectarian. Before people go ballistic ... that is simply the way the order is perceived! The definition of the word is manyfold and differs widely, but we should make no mistake about what really matters here and now (i.e. Scotland). It is the common opinion (created and groomed by you know who) that places the OO alongside all sorts of Irish Republican rabble, if not terrorists. As long as this misconception is not cleared once and for all, anything "orange" will be viewed as sectarian and bigotted and whatnot, no matter how far from the truth this actually is.

I see where you are coming from DB ie :- of, belonging or relating to, or characteristic of sects

I dont believe its use in this thread was meant to convey that meaning.

And I would agree with you .....

It is the common opinion (created and groomed by you know who) that places the OO alongside all sorts of Irish Republican rabble, if not terrorists. As long as this misconception is not cleared once and for all, anything "orange" will be viewed as sectarian and bigotted and whatnot, no matter how far from the truth this actually is.

PS well done for putting the Battle of the Boyne in to a proper historical perspective in an earlier post. The significance of the League of Augsburg, and the members thereof, always raise a few eyebrows.

Firstly Calscot I dont come onto Rangers forums to fall out with fellow Bears. I tend to use my energies fighting the enemies of our club rather than fellow bears.

Your first response to me I found particularly offensive, as you have absolutely no knowledge about me or my religious convictions or beliefs. If you think Im an over sensitive soul - just ask Frankie he will tell you otherwise.

I have no wish or desire to force a set of religious beliefs on my football club or anyone else for that matter, nor hi-jack a set of beliefs and attach them to my football club.

Ive explained to Max that is my belief that the request for such a top was done to represent the whole Protestant community in Northern Ireland not exclusively the Orange Order.

If you think the prevailing tone of this thread is one which displays a measure of objectivity towards the OO then that is your opinion. I would respectfully suggest that posts labelling the organisation "sectarian" along with other negative posts suggests otherwise.

Is it not more a case of... OO = feek all to do with Rangers

Well I think it was you yourself Max who mentioned the word context. The context of the whole discussion topic which you opened was that it came from Rangers supporters in Northern Ireland.

I asked you earlier if you had ever read "Faithful Tribe" by Ruth Dudley Edwards. There is probably no better work of literature which fully explains the significance and the role of the Orange Order in Northern Ireland and its significance within the Protestant community. A community which of course presents the second biggest Rangers supporting city outside Glasgow.

I have a suspicion that the request for an Orange top was not to identify with exclusively the Orange Order, but to represent the whole Protestant community in Northern Ireland - but as I say thats just my opinion based on what I have read.

Either you are totally misreading the posts or you are just making it up to get offended.

 

I haven't seen anything about the OO being sectarian. What people have a problem with is hijacking a religious order you don't really give a shit about, just to noise up another religious order. How is that behaviour that should be celebrated?

 

I've read before that the OO are actually against that kind of crap an d that it tends to be the hangers on that cause most of the trouble on their marches.

 

The whole thing is hypocrisy as it's all supposed to be about following the teachings of Christ, worshipping your god and living a good and just life. I really don't see any of that coming through in any of the false idol worshipping of who would be considered heathens by the protestants of the 17th century.

 

If you're into the OO, why not join it and follow its teachings instead of forcing a load of false crap onto the supporters of a football club so you can have a go at others? Just which of Christ's teachings are you following? "Love thy enemy"?

Oh really ?

Then perhaps you would do well to look a bit harder next time before you suggest Im either "misreading" or "making up posts to be offended"

Quote Originally Posted by EDGE View Post

Great thread - I'm in the Max and Mr Steel camp. I deplore any links that the club has to the sectarian OO. Just my opinion.

And there in a nutshell is the problem with this thread, some on here coming very close to calling Rangers Fans bigots because they want an Orange Top and should bugger off to the other bigots in the working class sites.

 

Hang your heads in shame the lot of you, this place has just dropped a little in my estimations over the course of this thread.

Its very disappointing indeed GA.

In particular I find a prevailing attitude expressed throughout that the OO = sectarian particularly disappointing.

Just saw the details from Charles Green's trip to NI and there are a few questions that I find slightly concerning. For example...

 

Q3: Would Rangers consider bringing out an Orange Top ?

C.G: "Yes' date=' they have a number of designs and are coming near agreement with Adidas"[/b']

 

As much as I understand Rangers derive many fans from NI and most of them are from a Protestant persuasion, I feel that an orange strip would be a direct reference to the Orange Order. I also feel it panders to a certain section of our fans and in turn alienates others and I would find that very dissapointing. What has orange got to do with Rangers FOOTBALL club? Why not stick to our footballing roots and have a white strip with blue star or a black and red strip? I know Charles Green is here to make cash from Rangers but I for one would be very dissapointed if he went down this road

 

Q5: Would Rangers Consider flying the 4 Home Nations Flags alongside the Flags already above Ibrox ?

C.G "I dont see why Not as the contribution and dedication of Rangers Fans throughout the U.K and the world is second to none and should be recognised"

 

Once again, as much as I realise that we draw fans from all over the UK and indeed the world, we are ultimately a Scottish club. We have won Scottish titles and cups. We have respresented Scotland in European competitions. We have always been based in Glasgow, Scotlands biggest city. WTF does the flags of NI, England and Wales have to do with Rangers?

 

Maybe what I'm getting at is that these guys who profess to love Rangers had a chance to ask CG questions and they choose to ask stuff about Orange strips and getting the flags of the Union flying over Glasgow. FFS is that really important?

 

Ok tin hat time...I am sorry but Rangers are MY FOOTBALL team. I was brought up in Govan and they will always be my team forever but I genuinely wish these guys would stick to supporting Linfield or a team in NI if they want to use their football as a vehicle for their religious/political beliefs. Or if you want to support Rangers, please just do that.

 

I have to say that I will seriosuly consider going back to Ibrox if they bring out another orange strip.

Max can I ask you have you ever read Ruth Dudley Edwards "Faithful Tribe". ?

No Im away from home and on my laptop so Ive not blogged it as yet so yes - go right ahead.

That is simply not true.

 

The Scottish Government formed the Joint Action Group (JAG) in the wake of the so-called "shame game" in March 2011 and one offshoot was the Joint Revue Group (JRG) which considered policing and the SPL Rules amongst other things and remains in place although the work of the JAG was completed last December. One outcome will be a Fans Charter which will cover fans rights and responsibilities.

 

However, things such as league size and distribution of monies is not the Government's business; it is the business and responsibility of the football authorities themselves.

I was referring to their lack of action since our club went into administration - not their response to what you refer to as the "shame game". Rangers alone have approx 250 employees. Clubs are already admitting they are cutting the cloth due to the absence of Rangers. Westminster has already acted and set up a hearing where witnesses are giving evidence regarding the Scottish football crisis.