JFK-1

I doubt it could be claimed that Joey Barton is any more of a hothead on the pitch than Graeme Souness was and he wasn't just a player he was the manager who got sent off in his very first match for the club for what almost amounted to an assault.

Surely the new Champions league proposal is a cross border league.

And what would an Atlantic league be if not multiple cross border and I have seen no suggestions that UEFA would nix it plus aside from the Welsh clubs in English football we also have Berwick Rangers in Scottish football.

Average attendances for the SPL 2015-2016 taking celtic out of the equation.

Heart of Midlothian FC - 16,423

Aberdeen FC - 13,094

Dundee United FC - 7,969

Dundee FC - 6,122

Motherwell FC - 4,912

Ross County FC - 4,034

Kilmarnock FC - 3,993

St. Johnstone FC - 3,880

Partick Thistle FC - 3,800

Inverness Caledonian Thistle FC - 3,754

Hamilton Academical FC - 3,027

So let's just go with that table with no old firm in it which would make for 5 matches on a Saturday and let's further give them the benefit of having all 5 of the top attended clubs at home which gives a total average attendance on an SPL Saturday with no old firm of 48,520 which Rangers can match all alone and those averages are padded by matches against celtic.

Whether the rest like it or not and whether they like to admit it or not the old firm ARE Scottish football so sky only need to get them on board at absolutely no extra cost to effectively buy Scotland in a footballing sense. Given the chance that's exactly what they will do by slipping them into the English setup at as I said absolutely no extra cost.

My God, how does any Scottish team compete against that kind of money?

All Scottish teams combined couldn't compete with that but at the same time as even Barton touched on in his interview it's not just Scottish teams. The vast majority of the continent can't compete with it either and are looking for ways to even get a look in which is why we see all this Atlantic league stuff being bandied around.

And in the end it wont be up to English teams to decide who can be invited in for a cut of the pie the pay masters will decide that. That's one of the downsides of selling your soul to the devil.

There were relatively few bears on the pitch - no more than 150-200 in my opinion which is less than 1% of our allocation. Many had already left by then.

 

On the other hand, I'd suggest there were around 10,000 Hibs fans on the pitch going by the similar looking number left in the stands.

 

That means there were 50 times more Hibs fans than bears on the park and those numbers should be considered by anyone in this independent commission.

I'm judging comfortably more than 5,000 by looking at the mob and trying to envisage that fitting into a stand.

He said the other day rangers fans entered the park at the final whistle as the hibs fans entered

Not what anybody else says apparently. This is a BBC timeline.

16:51:48 - Final Whistle

16:51:58 - Pitch invasion begins

16:53:25 - Fans smash goalpost

16-54-54 - Rival fans clash

So according to the BBC a full 3 minutes and 6 seconds passed after the final whistle before Rangers fans had any inolvement which is illustrated by this. 16-54-54 - Rival fans clash

And he needs to show me it. Can anybody see Rangers fans on the pitch at the final whistle in THIS?

You can even hear the bile in this crowd with abusive comments about Rangers and their fans. NOT simply joy at a cup win.

Ironically I could also hear what sounds like a young boy at one point saying they should get off the pitch. A child has more sense than that rabble.

I'm capturing any incriminating video I find in case it's taken down and anyone else can do the same using this link.

Another one of them almost right in the faces of our fans who are still in the stand taunting them to come out. After watching this I'm only amazed that more didn't.

Best example I have seen so far of how quickly there were thousands on the pitch and clearly shows how very little was in place to stop it. Taken from the hibs end and starts before the final whistle.

I like to think that we are above petty banning here though. No need for us to stoop to their level. Our bans are ones which are fully warranted

I agree. You can see my response to their topic. It's perfectly civil and to the point. A view but obviously they can't stomach anything they can't refute. Seemingly their view is take your reality out of here. As for this guy coming in here with his claims go for it but you need to justify what you're saying. To begin with I want examples of what would get Rangers docked 25 points every season. Starting with this season just passed.

I have just had a wee look on here before I turn in, only to find a HOBO on here!! Everyone knows how I feel about them, I know I am new on here but please ban the pondlife. I just dont get it? Why come on here? Really? Get a life!!

I'm not saying he should be banned but they banned me from their forums for this which was a response to a topic titled "Ridiculous Ranger's Statement"

The absolute reality is that it's not going to matter how you try to spin this or ignore it or downplay it among yourselves.

 

There will be no agreement from anyone else that this was anything but shocking and dangerous behaviour from not a handful of people but thousands and already the actual result is a side issue with the English media running with labels like "feral" with barely a word on the actual result.

 

There is no point in trying to talk around it by going on about how somebody else did something else at some other time. It wont take any focus off it. And does anyone seriously imagine that only Rangers would have issued such a statement after such an event?

 

Any club would have and it's likely the SFA will too. It's all this final is going to be remembered for just like the 1980 final and since views on this kind of thing are infinitely more stern than they were in 1980 the chances are there will be severe repercussions.

Daily Record reporting that the guy who Wallace launched his chin at was taken in and allowed to go free to celebrate Hibs Cup win.

 

Are there absolutely no morals in Scotland anymore ??

Presumably we would all get that treatment if we take a swing at someone in a hibs jersey?

I don't doubt you at all my friend. I will take your word for it. No Hibs website will get a click from me.

I feel we have to be logging this mentality as much as we possibly can no matter where it lies. These are the same people whining about songs while posting topics about "huns"

There was an older Hobo on the Kaye Adams radio show this morning saying exactly that,plod must have known about it as it was planned in advance,it was all over social media he said!,plod must have missed that?

So I must be a better investigator than the cops are if they did? And it's not even my job to scan the internet looking for such information. Where were they looking for it? Daily Record comments?

I'm hazarding a guess that the "I believe Lee Wallace had a swing at him" remark is a poorly worded acknowledgement that somebody took a swing at Wallace.

It's a purely criminal matter which has no sporting sanctions attached. If there wasn't limited liability, and we are truthful, then the old firm would be docked 25 points a season and be playing in front of closed stadiums.

For what exactly? Can you tell me what Rangers would have been docked 25 points for this season? Last season? The season before that? Any season in the past 25 years? I'm guessing you must have masses of details I'm unaware of since they would be docked 25 points every single season.

I have absolutely zero desire to click on a Hibs fans forum link and hope that everyone else here feels the same way.

I agree there is no need to click on it, I presume no one doubts what I'm saying is true but if anyone ever wanted to argue it the link is there. We're already facing a tsunami of denial regarding every facet of this fiasco.

Another aspect to this which is obviously speculation on my part and will mean nothing to any investigation but am I the only one who suspects we would have seen a pitch invasion by them regardless of the result?

Apparently they had been planning a pitch invasion on social media beforehand and I somehow doubt a loss would have changed their minds on that since they were already charged up for it and the chances are that a loss may simply have resulted in an even more aggressive charge at the Rangers players, staff, and fans.

I have been looking at their fan forums and I would suggest if the SFA have any doubts about the mentality of that support they merely take a look there too. What they will find is an overwhleming mentality of justification for everything that happened.

It's actually comical to look at in some respects. There is an ocean of whataboutery regarding songs like Billy boys as if that assaulted anybody and that's amid a sea of posts and actual topic titles about the "huns"

This is an actual topic on their forums at this very moment titled. "Any of you lot work with huns?" http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?311543-Any-of-you-lot-work-with-huns

There weren't enough cops in all of Glasgow to stop that mob. The only way to deal with this is to impress on them that no one gives the proverbial flying how long you waited for a cup win this behaviour even if no assaults were carried out is still unacceptable and dangerous.

Would UEFA brush it off as "exubrance" if this happened in a Euro match? Opposing fans goaded and threatened with cut throat gestures while their players are assaulted and spat on? They ban other players for that type of behaviour far less threatening mobs of thousands.

Good luck Rab. Spiers already calling both situations "deplorable", effectively equating words in a song to player assaults.

 

Our media are fucking awful !

So he would feel no different if I called him, well I dunno but called him whatever. than he would if I punched him in the face? Words and actions are no different in his view. Right? And that's rational? So following that logic too if I were taken to court for calling him say a fenian the law woulkd think that's an equivalent crime to punching him in the face and breaking his jaw?

I must be an idiot. They can call me whatever they like and I will take that over the punch any time because I have actually had a broken jaw resulting from a football connected incident. Teeth wired up for 3 weeks sucking nutrition through a straw along with massive dental damage it took surgery to repair. Yeah that equated to name calling.

You underestimate this mob they don't give a shit about the rest of the world. They are cocooned in their own web and think they are untouchable. They will ride out the storm by bobbing and weaving and at the end of the day little will have changed except there will be a few A4 papers typed out and put in a plastic cover ending up in a filing cabinet. A few wrists will be slapped and life will go on.

You could be right because nothing would surprise me about the poisonous Scottish football environment but there has to be a point when any imagined unbreachable cocoon reaches breaching point and this could very well be it. Not all of the press is downplaying it, the Herald for example points out that there were an estimated minimum 5,000 Hibs contingent on the pitch and they also say that that there was a full 5 minutes of being taunted and watching assaults on their team before Rangers fans took to the field at all which they describe in this fashion.

By this time there were easily 5000 Hibs supporters on the pitch, maybe more, and they all-but covered every inch from the centre line to the goal, and those from the Rangers end who got past the stewards numbered a couple of hundred at most.

The more of it that accumulates the better, though. It might become an un-ignorable mountain in time. We should collate every example.

I agree. Their initial reaction was simply to virtually ignore it but that's fast becoming untenable and continuing to follow the initial line of no big deal is going to blow up in their faces big time. There have been no uploads to the club YouTube channel in 2 days and that's unusual. I expect something interestinh when they do break that silence and i'm hoping for interviews with players and staff wh were assaulted though that may be impractical for legal reasons.

There is too much evidence out there illustrating that this was not just outrageous behaviour but highly dangerous behaviour and that Hibs fans were the cause. It will sink in over the next day or two that they have to do something about this or be exposed to the world at large as the mindless bigots they accuse others of being. The shit storm coming their way if there isn't an appropriate response might even be worth losing the cup for.

Think they would be willing to laugh it off as "passion" and "exuberance" if I were to go look for Petrie and punch him in the face?