Rousseau

In terms of professionalism, surely it's only right that anyone not having their contract renewed should be told so. However, he must have known it was unlikely. It's hardly professional bitching about it afterwards though -- he's just trying to get his name in the papers.

He's almost 36, I don't see him playing regularly for us in the SPL, if at all. As such I see no point whatsoever in signing him. Can we not get promoted next season using a younger player? I don't see the point having any player over thirty unless they're a standout and worth taking a hit on (no resale value).

I think we differ on whether he can play regularly in the SPL. If he can't, then yes, overlook him, but I think he could contribute something. He is a free, isn't he? So it's not much of a hit. We can only wait and see.

He's judged by whether his manager thinks he had a good game or not. The stats may be a help to him if they are used in conjunction with watching the game live and then on tape afterwards but that would be down to the individual. The game seems to have been over-complicated.

I agree with that. It was more for me than a Manager. I haven't seen him play other than the times he played against us. I wanted to see his stats so I could get an idea of how well he's done. Looking at a performance is subjective, and you'll get a different opinion from each person you ask -- 'He's shite', 'He's class'. 15 Assists in 30 games seems a pretty good stat that suggests he has an influence on the team.

I think football hipsters should be shot.

 

A successful 2 yard pass when surrounded by three opponents is different to a 2 yard pass with nobody nearby. The bare stats don't appear to have any context to them.

I agree, but surely a midfielder needs to be judged on something?

I never have taken the time to find out the parameters of these in-depth stats.

 

Is a successful pass judged the same whether it is 2 yards sideways or a 20 yard slide rule pass that guts the defence and leads to a goal?

Good point. I suppose it would need to be split into short-pass-success-rate and long-pass-success-rate. Obviously the difficulty is different, but I would argue the short pass is still a very important pass. Xavi is renowned for the short pass; Pirlo the long pass. Which is more difficult? probably the latter. Which is most important? Both, I'd say. Although pass-success-rate doesn't take into account difficulty, I still think it's an important stat with which to judge a midfielder -- It suggests the importance of the player to the team.

What do you think?

I agree with you on Allan. As I said in another post theres a long list of players like him who are the better players in Scottish football and who weren't good enough in England. He's a lot better than what we have but if he was that good he would have broken through at Birmingham and WBA. That said, I want players like him much more than someone like Eustace. What is the point in signing players just for this division? A captain no less?

 

Given the position we are in, I definitely want us to sign players like Allan and Wilson. They are decent SPL level players, though long term we need better, ideally focusing abroad and developing our own.

I appreciate where you're coming from, and if we could get another 'younger' sitting-midfielder with experience, than I'd prefer to go down that route. However, I think he could be a shrewd acquisition. He's experienced, he can pass a ball, tackle, etc. -- he's certainly not short of admirers! --, and if he plays for the next 2/3 years he'd be a success. If we can go younger, then, yes, that's the way to go, but he's a realistic option just now, so I'm ok with it. I'm not too excited, but I can see the logic.

Well, this is not the US of A and American Football, where people are measured by yards run and thrown and whatnot. Yet, you do get decent enough stats over at transfermarkt, both for Scott Allan

 

Overall

 

Goals, assists, cards et al (Leistungsdaten)

 

... and of course Eustace too

 

Overall

 

Goals, assists, cards et al

 

Haven't checked but there sure is an English version out there too. Tor means "goal", Torvorlage means "assist".

 

Same obviously goes for Rangers -> http://www.transfermarkt.de/glasgow-rangers/startseite/verein/124

Thanks for that.

Of course it's not American Football, but we judge strikers by goals scored etc., so it makes sense to judge a midfielder on assists and passes, pass success rate etc. no?

Incidentally, Allan contributed 15 assists in 30 games last year. I think that's decent; it certainly makes me more interested in signing him.

I don't mind us signing a 35 year-old player, simply because he's bound to play DM where pace is not necessary. He's obviously had injuries last year, and that is the worrying aspect: is it an unfortunate injury, or is it related to age? To be fair, I would still be happy with the gamble; he's obviously a leader so if he can play 20+ games he'd have an influence. I also appreciate most, and me included, feel we should be building for the future and a 35 year-old doesn't fit the bill. However, he might be able to play a few years yet. If his influence is beneficial to the team, and he plays for another 2/3 years would that be acceptable? It would for me.

Why is there no decent stats (outside appearances and goals -- there not really a good judge of performance for a midfielder! I need pass accuracy, pass success rate, assists, touches etc.) for Scott Allan? Allan's a strange case. He's always been overrated in my opinion, and his record in England would corroborate that (although, in his defense his loan spells were only a month or two in length), but his performances in Scotland have been lauded. I think he's overrated, but would actually quite like to sign him. Cognitive dissonance?! When in doubt, check FIFA16! (He's level 66.) In absolute terms he's probably a level below what I would like for us; although in my mind we're in Europe! Perhaps he'd be a decent signing for now, but not for the European stage. Does that mean we should overlook him? I'm not so sure. I think I'd take him; he's certainly one of the better players in Scotland, and he's probably good enough for the Premiership.

Again I'm underwhelmed with Eustace -- his age being the main cause for concern -- however, after doing a bit of research, he could be a shrewd acquisition. He's a sitting midfielder, quite strong on the ball and can pass it, so he seems to fit the style WW are after. He's not going to have the legs but that's not necessary in his position and his age doesn't seem to have hindered him over the last few years in the Championship. His experience could be beneficial for youngsters. If he's playing regularly in the Championship at 33, 34 and 35 (He only missed out last year through injury, and, if some tweets from Derby supporters are trusted, they really missed him -- Derby are not a bad side), then I think he should be able to play with us for 2 or 3 years. (I can't believe I'm about to say this but Neil Lennon was playing for Them at 35 and looked average, but was considered an important player. )

Don't despair on my behalf. I've been in Bermuda for 15 years, which is 36% of my life, so I will retain the right to use American slang wherever I see fit, especially as Bermuda is very Americanised despite being a British colony.

That's fair enough. It wasn't directed at you -- I actually thought I seen it a few times from others, but on looking through I only see you using it. Apologies.

I don't think it was badly handled at all IMO. They want to create a 'singing section', which is a good idea in principle, and then they've asked those that would be affected for their feedback. Nothing's been decided as far as I can see. I don't see the problem.

If he had responded to the push with a similar push he would have received the same punishment as Erwin. The degree of his punishment was for the degree of the retaliation added to his previous record of indiscipline. There really is no just reason to defend him.

I'm not defending him, and I'm not critcising the punishments -- ok, maybe the 'punishment' handed to Erwin. I'm merely suggesting the media would have us believe he was the devil in that situation, while there has been nothing much said about the push by Erwin, and nothing much said about the 5-on-1 assault following the incident. To rank the events according to severity, I would suggest Erwin's was 3rd, Mohsni's response 2nd, and the 5-on-1 assault was worst.

I was looking at the squads of the U-21 European Championship teams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_squads). We should be poaching the young talent from countries/leagues that are inferior/less wealthy than ours. The Scandinavian leagues are considered lesser than ours are they not? There are some decent names in their squads we should seriously consider. I always notice that they get picked up by Dutch sides if they show any promise -- we should get in there first!

How are we defining "one-trick pony"? "a person or thing with only one special feature, talent, or area of expertise." I think most footballers would come under that definition -- Messi does the same stuff over and over again.

Vuckic has one special talent, and that is his left foot. He's not particularly quick, or skillful, but he has a decent 'jink' (?), or acceleration to move away from a player and a very good left foot. He started his career as a striker and I think most can see he isn't particularly effective/suited in midfield. He needs to be played further up. I think he was sussed out to a degree at the end, but he was still able to beat a man to get a shot off (I'm thinking of the Hibs play-off game at Easter Road), but it seemed to me it was executed from further and further away from the goal.

If we could get him cheaply, then I'd take him; he'd do a job. He was one of our 'better' player, but relatively speaking he's not an exceptional talent.

Most players do in fact specialise, which can come under the definition of 'one-trick pony'. I think Vuckic could be considered a 'one-trick pony' in the sense that he specialises on his strength, but IMO most players do so, so it shouldn't be a derogatory assignation.

I would love to copy a Chilean approach, however unrealistic it may be: energetic, fast, technically proficient young players, but almost 'stock' players, no superstars; and combine that with the most progressive, high pressure, technical game you'll ever see in Bielsa's tactics (and his disciples) and it makes for a fascinating team/game (3-3-1-3 formation! Who doesn't want to see that!) I like the idea of no superstars, but working players, with good technical ability, that can play in a number of positions.

Many were underwhelmed when Warburton was linked to the job -- me included! I have since come to realise that he appears to have the skills that we need at this time. I'm quite confident he will be beneficial in terms of rebuilding the club, and also playing attacking football. However, while I despair at the lack of positivity in the new manager by some, I appreciate that some will require tangible results before they can judge; that's fine, but it works both ways, so I would suggest keeping the criticism -- for that is what it is, and that's what others are most frustrated at -- to a minimum until he can be judged properly.

Vacation!? Another Americanism slipping into our dialect. I despair.

I was never a big fan of Mohsni (although I was pleased when he performed well: like the times when he reads the forward pass a drives himself forward to intercept; Or the times he got his head on a cross easing the pressure. I took great pleasure in watching that -- we don't have many that can read a pass like that. It was all too few and far between alas!), but I feel sorry for him here. It was not an unprovoked attack, and while I'm not condoning what he did, I feel he's being made a scapegoat. He's not a nutcase, he just has a temper with a low tolerance threshold. I doubt anyone, when pushed hard, would simply walk away. I condemn the degree of the response, but I do not condemn that he responded at all.

We really need to stop waiting until something happens before we plan for it. We should be building a team now for the years ahead, trying to identify bargains abroad who we can develop into at least Europa quality players. Winning the Scottish Cup this year and competing in the Europa in a year's time is possible and should be a realistic target. We can't just worry about it at the time, unless we want to become just another Scottish team who get beat by Irish and Welsh teams.

I agree, but I doubt achieving a Europa League spot for the 2016/17 season is realistic. I think you assume young British players will not progress to Europa League standard, whereas I think they can. We've shown intent by targeting young players (One so far, but we can presume that's the type Warburton's after), and if they progress in the right way we will have a squad capable of qualifying for the Europa League in a few years time; In that regard, we are signing players capable of -- potentially -- competing in the Europa League. I also concur with Ian1964, that we're not really in a position to sign Europa League-standard players while we're in the Championship.

I think the planning we agree should happen entails buying younger, British-based, players with a modern-game style and plenty of promise at the present time. I think Europe is a few years off yet, and we'll only be able to sign the appropriate players when we have a realistic chance of finishing in a European spot in the Premiership.

We seem to be exclusively look at the lower leagues in English, which is understandable as that is the market Warburton knows. We will need much better than that if we want to start regularly competing in Europe once we're back in the SPL.

One step at a time. As long as they're young and promising then I'm happy. We can sign players for European campaigns when we're nearer qualification.

Wigan have accepted a bid from Rangers for defender Rob Kiernan, according to Sky sources.

 

The 24-year-old is set to become new Rangers boss Mark Warburton's first summer signing after a fee of around £200k was agreed between the clubs.

 

Warburton worked with Kiernan during their shared spell at Watford's academy and he then signed Kiernan on loan for Brentford whilst working as the club's sporting director, impressing in his eight appearances with the Bees during the 2012-13 season.

 

Kiernan, a former Republic of Ireland international, was nurtured further by current Everton boss Roberto Martinez whilst at Wigan, and he was tipped for a big future by the Spaniard.

 

But the centre-back, who can also play in central midfielder, struggled to break into Wigan's first team under Uwe Rosler and then Malky Mackay during a troubled last season in which the club's chairman Dave Whelan left and they were relegated to League One.

 

Kiernan made 12 appearances on loan at Birmingham after joining the Midlands club for the rest of last season in February, and he is understood to be keen to move on to a new challenge.

The section in bold is quite promising: if Martinez thought he had something then I'd be confident that he'd be comfortable on the ball. Warburton does indeed know the kid from Watford and Brentford.

My opinion is changing for the positive after being somewhat underwhelmed initially.

Wee bit underwhelmed but I'm willing to defer judgement until I see him. Warburton obviously knows the guy, he's at a good age and has played in a competitive league, so a quick glace would imply he'd do well enough.

Interesting comparison when reading English reports and Scottish press reports,English=A great signing by Rangers,Warburton will be successful,Scottish=He wasn't first choice,Rangers have no money,why did he choose Rangers............................................

Impartiality versus prejudice.

Stevie May is a prime example of a young Scottish player who banged them in left, right and centre in the SPL but was not good enough for the English Championship. If he isn't good enough for the English Championship we shouldn't be signing him.

That's a brutal statement, but I think it must be adhered to. However, Stevie May is still only 22 and his record at Scottish Championship level is excellent, his record at Premiership level is good also. While in principle I agree we should be looking for young successful players who have done well in England, I question how we could attract them. I would be quite pleased to get Stevie May: he's a good young talent -- certainly better than what we have!

Scouting should not have been based on Warburton coming in. It can't be something which needs to be overhauled every time that there is a managerial change as that would just be chaotic. The planning for it should have been done in all those months that they had leading up to taking over.

That's why we need a Sporting Director, or DoF: someone who will implement a structure that will continue regardless of managerial change. In theory the manager will fit into the system in place, rather than a manager overhauling the system every time we change manager. I think Warburton understands this and can begin this implementation process. I think, hope a Sporting Director will be appointed sometime in the future.