plgsarmy

I know you're right and you know I know you're right. One further question though - on whose wall are those 'fake' tops now hanging?

 

How about PLG though, denying something that was set out by the RST itself to explain its own shortfall of funds? Sometimes the people associated with the RST are just beyond parody.

I denied rbr's version of events. This was all explained at last year's AGM but the story appears to have grown arms and legs since then. I am not prepared to discuss this on a public message Board as the matter is in the hands of the police.

This is a guy who tried to discredit former RST board member about fake signed tops that had been auctioned for charity, again he never when challenged followed up on his accusations and the money was never recovered.

That is so wide of the mark it's unbelievable. Where are you getting this nonsense from?

You must have 'missed' my last post, PLG. So I thought you'd appreciate if I repeated it. Wouldn't want to miss an opportunity to provide some facts to match your rhetoric

Well, RSEA has reached well over �£100K since it started. There have also been events held and substantial money raised over the years for the Davie Cooper Centre, Sara Thackerey Appeal and I was personally involved in raising in excess of �£4000 for George Simpson, who lost a leg in Barcelona.

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Well, nobody can accuse you of not speaking your mind Maineflyer. Not only honest, but brutally honest.

It's not honest. It's deluded.

Actually, it has always been as bad as it is now. The apologist may not look in the mirror too often and may not think criticism is worth commenting on but the truth is out there and too many people now see through the RST game for what it actually is.

 

I look forward to aseeing this so-called freely available promotion being sent to ALL Rangers websites, including the one that cannot be mentioned on FF, on pain of automatic banning. Some chance!

Yes the truth is out there Maineflyer but is certainly isn't on the website you refer to.

Sorry but have to disagree here , there is an increasing amount of RST business which is done exclusively through Ff or �£�£ as it is being increasingly known as , the excuses that were used to remove the previous RST board can quite as easily be aimed at this lot , every hit on that site earns one man money , christ there's now �£�£ podcasts , what next , it's no wonder more and more good fans are moving to other sites . If it wasn't about the money how does he never remove the timposters even when they are reported directly to him .

 

Used to be a good site , now just a joke

And I will respectfully disagree with you. Other than this, what other part of RST business has been done exclusively through FF? We try to ensure that if we put anything out it is first e-mailed or texted to members then goes on our website before any others. Simon perhaps jumped the gun with this one but give me other recent examples. David Edgar is no longer on the Board so mention of books and podcasts he is involved with don't count so please don't use them as examples. I haven't a clue about money made from websites. I do have an economics Masters Degree but the law of supply and demand is first year secondary school stuff. I'd rather he got the running costs from advertising than having to ask punters to make a financial contribution but that is just my opinion. Timposters are on every Rangers site, you'd be crazy not to admit that. FF is still bigger than all the other sites combined - by some way. There are lots of people who 'make money' from the Rangers support. Merchandise sellers, pubs, hamburger stalls etc. There is only one person being vilified for it. And I fail to see how a site that has raised so much for charitable causes over the years can be called a joke.

So why is this being publicised on FF and not all Rangers forums ... or just simply on the RST website alone. He says no one will make money but of course every hit on FF is about making money for an individual who uses an overt and controlling influence over the (our) RST in order to bolster a profit-making website. The RST is effectively being used for the benefit of an individual and that's unacceptable.

 

Why draw attention to this? Because this incestuous, debilitating, hypocritical and divisive relationship between the RST and FF is at the root of the RST's failure to function on behalf of all. It might require some effort to look beyond the protestations of innocent goodwill but it's an edifying and worthwhile task. Take a second look at exactly who "spouting rubbish". Gullibility is no excuse.

The thread on Follow Follow asks people to post it on as many other websites as possible, which shoredbear did here. I'll get it posted on the RST website in due course but I want to keep our AGM notice at the top for the moment. Your other comments are not even worth commenting on.

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How could I forget... Apologies for referring to you as a man!

I've been called worse.:spl:

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Is it not a bit OTT to call plgsarmy an apologist, when all he's actually done is to effectively respond to your rhetoric? You said there were motives of profit behind this project & plgsarmy has said that 'No individual will make money from this'. You've then gone on to question the motives of the RST simply becasuse they're involved in this project? Again, this seems OTT.

If the RST gave �£5 to every Bear going in the turnstiles at Ibrox, Maineflyer would find fault. Oh, and it's she.

And right on cue comes the predictable apologist for the pocket-liner whose image must be defended by all who depend on him. I don't believe anyone actually criticized any individual contributors to the book but you have to wonder at the motives of an RST whose activities now focus on association with books rather than the stagnation of the club. The only show in town seems to have finally closed it's doors and abandoned all pretence at being a supporters trust. Muppets.

Just exactly what are you on about? Who am I an apologist for? You were (and still are) the one insinuating that individuals would make money from this and I put you right. I told you the motives of this project which is just one of many we are involved in. We are not involved with any other book. Get your facts right before coming on and spouting rubbish. I don't mind you criticising the RST, that is your right, but don't go down the route of libel.

Sometimes I'm just lost for words. Some of the comments, innuendo and accusations are frankly disgusting. This project is being led by Simon Leslie, a more honest or committed Bear you couldn't find. No individual will make money from this. Simon is part of a group which is responsible for both fundraising and links with the community. One of the ideas for this is to give books to schools and help promote the club and the fans to kids.

Surprised your chairman hasn't shared it with the rest of his board but I'll PM it over to you so you can ask him why...

 

Thanks for the help.

Frankie,

I do know that SS's internet was down for a while (a few weeks) and that he was also going on holiday so that might be an explanation.

PLG:

 

Apologies for the thread hijack, but do the Trust intend replying to an email I sent the chairman a few weeks back?

No problem Frankie but I know nothing about this. Can you send me a copy?

Are you still part of PLGs army?

It stands for Papac, Lafferty and Greegs.

Rangers Supporters Trust and Newcastle United Trust

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This weekend sees a series of events to tie in with the game against Newcastle United this coming Saturday.

SUPPORTERS MATCH

This weekend will see the Trusts play one another at football, jointly welcome a group of Royal Marines to Ibrox and have a NUST Board member describe their experiences at a meeting on Sunday.

The Newcastle United Supporters Trust (NUST) has accepted an invitation from the Rangers Supporters Trust (RST) to join them in a members football kick-about of our own at the Ibrox Complex prior to the friendly match on August 7th followed by hospitality in the Wee Rangers Club. The supporters match kicks off at 9am. The ââ?¬Å?bigââ?¬Â Rangers/NUFC game is a 1pm kick off.

The Training complex is situated adjacent to the main stand at Ibrox and the Wee Rangers Club can be located just next to the stadium at the end given over to away supporters and in the words of RST "is a fantastic venue for pre and post match drinks, they serve food and kids are welcome and downstairs they have a Rangers /party DJ on entertaining the crowds".

The game is kindly sponsored by The Captain�s Armband memorabilia shop at 261 High Street, Glasgow - http://www.thecaptainsarmband.com

ROYAL MARINES TO BE GUEST OF THE TRUST

20 Royal Marines from 45 Commando will be guests of the Trust in the Wee Rangers Club before and after the match.

Learning of the visit Rangers Football Club stepped in and has made available 20 free tickets for the troops from the True Colours scheme.

The lads - including a contingent of Geordies! - will be housed in the Broomloan Road stand for the game.

NEWCASTLE TRUST MEETING IN GLASGOW

On Sunday morning Steve Hastie from NUST will address a meeting in the Wee Rangers Club at 11am before heading down the road.

Steve will explain the background to the formation of NUST, how it operates and how it has managed to sign up 33,000 members on the net. Like Rangers, Newcastle have a major shareholder willing to sell but unable to move on ownership so there are a lot of lessons Bears can learn from the Geordies.

Admittance is free and open to all interested Rangers and Newcastle fans whether they are signed-up Trust members or not.

Of course it is OK to post Trust news...

 

An excellent initiative from the club and fan groups well worth of our support.

Sorry Frankie, I knew it would be okay on here. I've been trying to post it on as many forums as possible, except of course the two that I'm banned from.

Hope it's okay to post this. This is a way to bring some much needed income into the club as well as ensure that as many of our Armed Forces as possible get the opportunity to watch the Rangers.

http://www.rangerssupporterstrust.co.uk/rstsite/

The Rangers Supporters� Trust fully supports the Club and the Rangers Supporters Assembly in this wonderful new scheme which will help not only bring additional revenue to the Club but will reward the brave men and women in our Armed Forces. To this end, we are delighted to announce that the RST will pledge two of our season tickets to support it.

We would, however, like to go further than that. We are aware that many people can�t afford a full season ticket but might want to make a gesture to show support for the initiative. We have set up a Paypal link to collect contributions from individuals and the total collected will be spent on buying season tickets for the True Colours Initiative. The names of all contributors will be passed onto the Club and the Assembly, or you can remain anonymous if you wish. Please donate as little or as much as you can afford and help show that we truly are the people.

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My initial feeling was that yet again they were just jumping on a publicity opportunity & that's exactly what I think it was. Fair play though because the RST need as much good publicity as possible. Is this good publicity or is just a case of any publicity is 'good' publicity?

I think you are being a bit unfair here. A director at the club made a comment about fan ownership and we were asked to respond. There are some occasions where it might be better if we didn't comment but, as an organisation whose ultimate aim is for fans to own the club, it was totally appropriate that we responded to this.

But you did start such a 'campaign' in January last year.

 

Did that alienate more people than it did attract members?

WDB had a go at the RFC Board, not just SDM. The Captain of Industry then came out all guns blazing to attack us without addressing any of the issues raised. It was made clear that we continued to back the team 100% and many may have seen it as an attack on the Club rather than those running it. Whilst we did attract some new members, I can't say how many people it alienated.

So, more of the same to come then. Seriously, while I understand it was a founding objective, I'd now be setting my sights higher than a seat on the board. Above all else I'd want to see the Trust recover some respect among the support and really start to grow the membership, without which there's no credibility in the first place. To do that it's essential to draw a line in the sand and make a fresh start, which would allow you to leave behind some of the debilitating baggage of the last few years. In the process you get a chance to re-introduce some of the democracy that has been missing for years, clear out some of your undoubtedly dead wood and attract some of the talent that wouldn't touch the current RST with a bargepole.

 

Or, of course, you could just keep rolling along because it, convenient and comfortable to do so ... And UCB can keep complaining every time someone wants something better than he's offering.

Jeezo MF, that's almost a constructive post.:spl:

It's not ideas we're short of but the ability to select the right ones and put them into effect. The RST hasn't been short of talking but that hasn't led it to the the point of achievement - and what is the point if achievement is placed second in line to personal recognition by those whose responsibility it's supposed to be to deliver it?

Who are all these people seeking 'personal recognition'?

No, I'm afraid I think you're taking the wrong tack here. The point is that every time these people are confronted on relevant issues they hide behind personal offence, collective responsibility, unfair criticism or whatever. What we need is to refuse to put up with this insulting treatment, not give them even more space to fudge and gaff about.

 

If he's such a big boy then perhaps he'll be big enough to accept responsibility for the organization he previously told us all he was joining to make a difference. Some difference!

 

If you tolerate this level of incompetence then don't be too surprised when what you get is ... even more incompetence. I mean, we all know they need to go, do you think they're going to volunteer?

Okay Maineflyer, have we succeeded in getting supporter representation at Board level - no. Have we succeeded in getting fans ownership of the club - no. In that respect then we have failed. I do think that via Gerspride and more recent developments we have at least got fans ownership on the agenda for a lot more people and it's up to us to follow that up. FWIW, UCB has actually made a significant difference to how we operate although that might not be apparent for a little while longer. We are not in a position like the Manchester United Trust or the Newcastle and Liverpool fans where their owner are hated by the vast majority of fans. We still have a significant amount of fans who still think that SDM can do no wrong. I've seen changes recently with some of the online community but the vast majority still think he can do no wrong. Most blame our troubles on the world wide recession. That is the reality. If we started a campaign about all the things SDM has done/ not done, it would alienate far more people than it would attract new members.

Any comments on this thread's content?

 

I could make lots of comments but have work to go to. The reason I like this forum is that most of the criticism is at least constructive. Some excellent points have been made, a lot of which I agree with. Many of these things we are aware of e.g. our image, link to FF, perception of some fans (linked to image). I am heading up a sub-group that is looking at how we can attract more members and retain existing ones and I've invited non-Board members onto the group to get them more involved. This is at a very early stage but I think it's a step in the right direction. I'll come on again later (it might be tomorrow as I'm going out tonight) and say more but just want to make a couple of points.

1) The fans groups are working closely together. As you know, the association are represented on our Board, we are part of the Assembly and the Assembly President is a Trust member and has been friendly with the Trust Chairman for over 20 years.

2) We have talked about free membership but have to consider that many people have paid �£100 for life membership so where does that leave them? We are considering e-membership along the lines of MUST.

That's all I have time for at the moment.

I wonder if it is telling that no RST board members replied to a thread on Gersave on FF?

That has now been rectified.:spl:

It's a shame everything ends up like this. The Founders Trail sounds a brilliant idea.

It is a brilliant idea. Yesterday was my 4th trail and I learn something new each time. If you want to know who is on the committee then e-mail them at thegallantpioneers@googlemail.com although I fail to see why that's important. The committee is chaired by Iain McColl who has been the driving force behind this project. His only motivation is to get our story out there to as many of our support as possible.