andrew_2010 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) I think we all know that Scotland is a poor league, but how much are Rangers (and Celtic) doing to save our nations blushes, and maintain a decent prospect of entry into the champions league? Scotland are currently ranked 13th, and this data reveals that 50% of the coefficient acquired by Scottish teams is due to Rangers. Almost 85% is contributed by the Old Firm. What I have checked is where Scotland would be without the Old Firm. i.e. the number of points gained by other Scottish teams, divided by the number of teams (excluding the OF). What this shows is the coefficient would be 7.08. That is good enough to be ranked THIRTY SIXTH. Let's put that in perspective: That is ranked LOWER than countries such as CYPRUS, BELARUS, IRELAND, MOLDOVA, LITHUANIA and LATVIA. Barely above lowly GEORGIA and AZERBAIJAN. In contrast, the Rangers and Celtic, if they were not hindered by the poor performance of their fellow Scottish teams, would have a national coefficient of FORTY SIX if shared between them. That would rank SIXTH in the UEFA Country rankings. Above PORTUGAL and RUSSIA. Sixth place would be good enough for AUTOMATIC qualification into the group stages for BOTH clubs. Even if you added a third Scottish team (and assumed they contributed nothing) the Scottish coefficient would be 30.6667 which would be 12th, three places above their current 15th position, again, meaning again automatic entry, although only for the champions. Due to the way the dates work across Europe with Summer Football, and needing to know how many places are up for grabs before the season starts, this is in reference to european entry for the season 2012/13. Thoughts are welcome, and if there are any writers out there that wish to use this for an article, feel free! Thanks to Zappa for best method to get the table uploaded! Edited March 12, 2011 by andrew_2010 Adding full size table, previously was a thumbnail only. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Really interesting numbers - thanks for taking the time and trouble to compile a superb post. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Andrew where are you getting those figures from as I dont think they are right. 32 Glasgow Rangers Sco 14.3500 22.0500 0.3750 6.5332 12.7200 , total points 56.028 , last 5 years including this years ongoing total of 12.72 Also Scotland are currently ranked 15th having risen from16th and very very possibly can reach 14th , remember the actual points won in themselves change due to the dcountry coefficient aspect . What is very very important is that we maintain our current seeding poistion of around the 30,s as this guarentees us a good seeding position every year , second place in the seedings doesn't do us any favours to be honest Edited March 12, 2011 by rbr 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_2010 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 Andrew where are you getting those figures from as I dont think they are right. 32 Glasgow Rangers Sco 14.3500 22.0500 0.3750 6.5332 12.7200 , total points 56.028 , last 5 years including this years ongoing total of 12.72 Also Scotland are currently ranked 15th having risen from16th and very very possibly can reach 14th , remember the actual points won in themselves change due to the dcountry coefficient aspect . What is very very important is that we maintain our current seeding poistion of around the 30,s as this guarentees us a good seeding position every year , second place in the seedings doesn't do us any favours to be honest The difference between the team coefficient is due to the fact that all teams get 20% of the national coeffiicient, hence why this year our coefficient is 12.72 and not 12 as in my table. Also, points gained in qualifiers are not included in team coefficients. What I have looked at is each clubs contribution to the countries coefficient and not the clubs actual coefficient. Effectively we get an additional fifth on whatever points we accumulate from now on. For Scotland to get to 14th,, Scotland need an additional 0.7 points, and as we are only one team left from 5, it means we need to get another 3.5 points ourselves. It is possible, but qualification for the quarters is essential. That gives us one bonus point, and we will get there by either winning (2 points) or by pens (1 point) and so would need another positive result in the quarters. Good to know someone is checking it though All my numbers came from Bert Kassies fantastic site: http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/ In addition here are the expected weighted percentage contributions in order: 22.33333333 12.33333333 22.33333333 4 4 3.333333333 8.333333333 8.333333333 5 5 5 But this is assuming everyone gets equal points, so it's slightly warped in the sense that if one team has a good year, the rest having an "ok" year doesn't cut it, so fair play to aberdeen who are probably the only team to get close to there "share" all teams being equal, and that includes Aberdeen being in europe in the 2008 year. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_2010 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 also, as it stands, there is no difference between being ranked 14th and 15th. To finish 13th, and get automatic entry for SPL champs (provided the CL champions gain auto entry though their league spot) we need an additional 10 points... Minimum possible with progress to needed stage: 1 (win vs psv) + 1 (QF bonus) + 2 (win/lose or draw/draw @QF1) + 1 (SF bonus) + 3 (qualifying from SF plus final bonus) and that's only 8, if we won the final we'd get another 2, I don't know if you get a bonus for winning tournament... Dream scenario: 3 (win vs PSV + QF bonus) + 5 (win/win @QF and SF bonus) and so a win in one leg of the semi's would get us up to 13th. Too much maths for a Saturday, I'll leave it there for now 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 As a country our biggest let down is the points earned by the smaller clubs in the Europa league , when you look at teams from Denmark , Romania etc they always manage to get decent points where as ours just get pumped out early doors 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Nice work andrew! I think the Gersnet writers forum is getting opened up to everyone this week, so if you're up for it you can develop it into an article, post it in there for feedback or any help/advice you need and we'll get it published for you. Same goes for anyone else who thinks they might have an idea for an article they'd like to be published. Just watch out for the writers forum becoming available to you and post any ideas for articles, draft or finished articles etc in there. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_2010 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 Agreed rbr! It's so obvious, and surely promotes the idea of an earlier start/summer football? Either way, the smaller teams need to do something. Or the league has to help them more. I guess it would make a good start for an article, particularly with the European football coming up, better than the tripe on the BBC about how McGeady was Scotlands savior... Sadly I'm no writer. There are many different ways to show the breakdown of this and if there is a better way to make it readable, I will happily do the changes. From a Rangers point of view, take out our contribution, and Scotland would be on 15.75 I think it was, which would mean 25th place. That means the champions have to go through 2 qualifiers to get to the group stage. Sadly, I'm no journo, and tend to get distracted and go off on tangents. Anyone interested in taking the glory can do so, as long as I get a wee thank-you! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 One of the biggest factors that's screwing us up is the actual number of teams we're getting into Europe in the past couple of years. For Scotland to be having 5 or 6 teams in Europe might seem great for the fans of the smaller clubs who suddenly get the chance of one or two European nights, but it's a complete joke for our nation as a whole and needs sorted out. We shouldn't have more than 4 spots in Europe and the idea of clubs like Falkirk, Dunfermline, QoS & Gretna getting a chance in Europe is rediculous at the moment. If we had a bigger SPL and over time these smaller clubs improved their standard due to having better finances, then they wouldn't necessarily get pumped out as quickly and screw up the coefficient as much. Freak things like Gretna and QoS getting to cup finals will happen sometimes, but that special Cup final day as well as the money it earns their club should be their reward. They shouldn't be getting a European spot. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Zappa I will have a wee go and then forward it to Andrew_2010 for his input and we can maybe get something out , the coefficient question is always brought up and is a mystery to many , ok with you andrew 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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