STV next on the sectarianism bandwagon

[Frankie 8,150]

STVNews are next on the sectarianism investigation bandwagon:

 

http://news.stv.tv/politics/263810-sectarianism-special-report-bernard-ponsonby-reflects-on-the-roots-of-scotlands-shame/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

 

Nothing new from Bernard Ponsonby though - usual tired clich�©s. I await the next instalment (which looks into the Old Firm effect) eagerly.

 

The knifes are being sharpened as we speak.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Frankie

[andrew_2010 0]

not sure i agree with this... and I am skeptical over the "figures" as they seem to be subjective (i.e. the victim is asked whether they think it is sectarian or even worse if it's the law that has declared them sectarian, under what definition?!)

 

What I did find refreshing was looking at the issue (albeit initially) without the old firm, and touching on issues such as the definition, the schools were mentioned, and the word "tribal" was used. I believe this is the most appropriate word for the troubles especially with the additional point made about the decline in church attendances!

 

So, refreshing, but will wait until the rest of the report before deciding if it's been good or bad...

[biggordy 0]

My hackles rose when I saw the preview to this piece. The main protagonists being tom devine and ponsonby himself.....both "celtic minded".

Devine is always wheeled out on these "reports" with his same old mantra, namely "Catholic = good and everyone else = bad.

Whenever separate schools are mentioned, he usually goes off on one. He simply refuses to even look at the notion that any kind of segregation could lead to a divided society. IMO lack of integration ONLY leads to division, particularly in a person's early years.

[andrew_2010 0]

Yeah, wasn't impressed with the people they got to comment on it, particularly this devine guy who, correct me if I'm wrong, vindicated pro IRA songs vs some of the "banned" songs associated with Rangers fans...? or at least said they were justified and not illegal...

[GovanAllan 0]

Usual all things catholic good all the rest not just prods bad bad bad they get taught it from birth and it sticks with them all the way to the grave. We are continually told to stop looking backwards stop the parades ban the orange stop singing about a battle from 1690. Then they roll out quote after quote from centuries past to prove there is a anti catholic agenda you can only shake your head in bewilderment. Quick history lesson catholic rule everyone got a kicking people take control of their own lives and religious beliefs Catholics got a kicking, we are a moment when imo where both sides are living happily away together but for some reason the catholic church have decided to start putting the boot in again only they know why, to me it seems to have started as a reaction to the sex scandal they still have not faced up to the turmoil it put the church in and the only way they can deal with it is to lash out at any anti catholic feeling they think is on the go deluded I think so. Time and again the hand of peace has been offered to them to bring the two churches closer wrongly imo but time and again it has been flung back in our faces. They don't want to live together with the rest of us they want segregation it is their last way of holding on to power they have.

[Frankie 8,150]

I believe the following publication is what Ponsonby is referring to in his commentary:

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/11/24133659/0

 

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/155706/0041794.pdf

 

STV need to reference all of this so the reader is aware of the context.

[calscot 0]

The thing that I find weird is that from the media portrayal, you'd think Scotland was a hotbed of religious motivated violence and discrimination on a huge scale, oh and combined with a fantastically violent hatred of the English...

 

Apart from the odd stupid comment or song and a bit of winding up, I think I may have spent a lot my life in the wrong Scotland... Ayrshire must be an exception!

[andrew_2010 0]

I still think that it is easier to get a conviction if you are from a minority and are claiming that has been held against you, compared with being in a majority group. Again, it's all down to interpretation, and if you look, wow! alcohol has a part to play in almost half of these cases!

 

Being somewhat educated in the field of Mathematics and Statistics, I have always been skeptical of statistical studies. It is one of the most abused "sciences" and the misrepresentation of raw data is easily done, especially with clever definitions and treatment of certain cases. Any inference on the general population is an assumption, and infact, these findings can only surmise what has been found to have happened, but could be missing key factors which confound the data.

 

You have to be very careful when looking at stats reports... especially in such a grey-scale field as opposed to a black and white (or "binomial") one.

[Frankie 8,150]

Add in the fact RC's only form 16% of the population (in the 2001 census anyway); then that also skews the abuse stat comparison surely?

[Frankie 8,150]

Actually, I've just been informed about an excellent Vanguard Bears article on this very subject from earlier in the year:

 

Today, I will join the Roman Catholic Church in asking that the Scottish Government provide a detailed breakdown of Sectarian Crime statistics for the period 2010 to 2011.

 

The Church has expressed anger at the rise in Sectarian Crime in Scotland over the last 18 months.

 

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Catholic-anger-at-growth-in.6770700.jp

 

This comes just weeks after the figures were released by the Government as referred to here.

 

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/bomb-threats-vile-websites-songs-of-bloodlust-and-hate-1.1097708

 

Quite clearly, both reports are slanted to imply that the highest ratio of sectarian crime is by Protestants on Catholics, despite there being absolutely no evidence within the figures released to justify this.

 

Indeed, the accompanying photograph in the Herald shows the Rangers support, but carries no picture of any other grouping of people. The message is clear.

 

Indeed, the very appearance of an “angry” Catholic church in yesterday’s Scotsman at the recent rise in sectarian crime paints a picture. It sows the seed in your brain that the anger is due to the fact that the rise is in Anti Catholic crime.

 

This is a great shame, as the finger pointing on sectarianism so prevalent in Scotland in recent decades has done nothing to eradicate the problem.

 

Firstly, we should always put Sectarian Crime and associated offences in to perspective.

 

In 2010/2011 there were 693 incidents of religiously motivated crimes/offences, which is 693 too many.

 

In Context to the overall crime figures in Scotland though it is a miniscule problem, that is disproportionately reported in Scotland’s Media. Scotland’s total volume of reported crime and offences for the most recently reported period of 2009/2010 is 901,763 (source Scottish Government Crime Trends report).

 

The percentage of sectarian crime of all crime in Scotland sits at 0.077%

 

I’ll let that sink in.

 

Then repeat it.

 

The percentage of sectarian crime of all crime in Scotland sits at 0.077%

 

Right, now the picture is starting to become clearer I’ll move on.

 

There were more firearms offences in Scotland in 2009-2010 than Sectarian Crime (839)

 

There were ten times more crimes of indecency than Sectarian Crime in the period (6548)

 

There were six times more racially motivated crimes in Scotland than Sectarian (4513)

 

The reportage of sectarian crime itself is an issue.

 

As there has been no detailed breakdown of Sectarian Crime since the 2004-2005 period , the spin put on that set of statistics, which was misleading at the time, is becoming accepted as evidence that sectarian crime is a Protestant Problem.

 

Perhaps those statistics should be revisited.

 

Then, as now, the media allowed the RC Church to misrepresent the data, spin it, and effectively lie about the content of it.

 

Lets recap. In that period, there were 726 cases. Of that 726, 64% were “Anti-catholic”, and 31% were “Anti-Protestant”.

 

The reports that followed included the headlines “Catholics bear brunt of Sectarianism”, and “Catholics 5 times more likely than Protestants to be victims of Sectarianism”

 

Given that no-one bothered to add context such as religious profiling within the Population these statements were wildly inaccurate, as were counter claims that 15.9 % of the Population (Catholics) could be responsible for 31% of all sectarian crime therefore twice as likely to commit sectarian crime than Protestants.

 

The reality is that the vast majority of the sectarian offences and crimes took place in the West of Scotland. The population split in Glasgow and surrounding areas is closer to a 60/30/10 split, with 60% being nominally Protestant, 30% being nominally Catholic, and 10% being other, which almost exactly matches the ratio of Sectarian crime, ie that both sides are equally culpable.

 

What this tells you is that Sectarianism is most certainly a two way street, but that there are agendas at work both from the Catholic Church in Scotland, and from the Media to present it as an Anti Catholic agenda.

 

One can only wonder as to the motivation to do it.

 

What do they have to gain by a) talking up sectarianism, and b) distorting the picture on it?

 

The real shame is that the authorities’ reluctance to go in to detail allows the church and various talking heads to perpetuate an untruth, and keep the sectarianism gravy train running.

 

It also allows Non Catholics to be demonised, which in itself is an act of bigotry

 

It also allows Rangers Football club and their support to suffer as their club becomes “tarnished” by a taint that it does not deserve.

 

The “fight” against “Sectarianism” has upped a gear in the last month once again with familiar faces from Jack McConnell to Jim Murphy to George Galloway to Peter Kearney to assembled agenda led activists at BBC Scotland all on the attack.

 

If they were genuine in intent, they would recognise publicly the true ratio of sectarianism to Scottish Crime, the ratio of Anti Protestant and Anti Catholic crime, and recognise the real presence of sectarianism within the Celtic support, in the presence of support for the Sectarian Provisional IRA.

 

Only Alex Salmond can wade in to this, and offer a real picture, although the funding of the SNP may well hinder the chances of that.

 

Welcome to Scotland. One Country, Many Cultures. As long as the culture isn’t Protestant.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Frankie