calscot 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I just mean being quick to judge, condemn etc. I don't think I've been quick to judge - it's taken me a while and I even appealed to have someone convince me it was all rosy. No-one did. I'm not condemning him as a person, I just don't like the look of the share issue that comes across as a bit of a pyramid scam. There's just too much money slushing around the original investors/lenders for my liking. There's money to be made for Green but it can all be mutually beneficial, we need to at least give it some time. When someone wants to make a quick killing, it's not usually mutually beneficial. A million quid would have been more than enough reward. Same as how Ally could still push on to be a great Rangers manager. He could, and is motivated to do so (although I doubt he'll be great and doubt more that he'll be given the proper chance with the proper tools). Green is more motivated by making money than any love for the club. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I don't think I've been quick to judge - it's taken me a while and I even appealed to have someone convince me it was all rosy. No-one did. I'm not condemning him as a person, I just don't like the look of the share issue that comes across as a bit of a pyramid scam. There's just too much money slushing around the original investors/lenders for my liking. When someone wants to make a quick killing, it's not usually mutually beneficial. A million quid would have been more than enough reward. He could, and is motivated to do so (although I doubt he'll be great and doubt more that he'll be given the proper chance with the proper tools). Green is more motivated by making money than any love for the club. 1 million will be tuppence to what the directors and investors have put in so far. The business world would barely exist if people couldn't get rich and see a company thrive. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Personally, I'm not shocked by what Green & Co. are making out of this. Seems to be fairly standard from what I have seen in industry. To get top quality management you need to pay the going rate. In fact, £350k is not that much but the options make it worthwhile. What matters is not the fact of paying this kind of money but making sure these guys perform. And if they do, the value they will bring will far outweigh what they make. But, we also need to be able to get rid of them when they don't perform. We were not able to get rid of Murray when he lost over £140 million in just a few years and Bain never justified his salary either. Failure of the support to invest in this IPO will make it much harder for us to hold management to account. That, in my view is the big downside of all this. Perhaps but I think those wages are premature. However, the thing that sticks in my craw is the millions in shares they will also be pocketing. It seem to me that their shares will be like quantitative easing by the Bank of England - printed without real investment backing and diluting the shares of the real investors. I'm all for 51% fan ownership but when it costs you more than 100% it's just never going to be an impact. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 i dont trust green and dont believe in ally. thats why im out. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossy 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Perhaps but I think those wages are premature. However, the thing that sticks in my craw is the millions in shares they will also be pocketing. It seem to me that their shares will be like quantitative easing by the Bank of England - printed without real investment backing and diluting the shares of the real investors. I'm all for 51% fan ownership but when it costs you more than 100% it's just never going to be an impact. The whole point of remunerating them in shares is as an incentive to make the business successful and the shares worth a lot. If they just get a salary then there is less incentive. Sure, they can get fired if they don't perform but there is no big upside if the do. With shares there is a huge upside for them if the club and the business is successful. Thus, as the theory goes, they will work harder and perform better. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bossy 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 i dont trust green and dont believe in ally. thats why im out. Ciao bella 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The whole point of remunerating them in shares is as an incentive to make the business successful and the shares worth a lot. If they just get a salary then there is less incentive. Sure, they can get fired if they don't perform but there is no big upside if the do. With shares there is a huge upside for them if the club and the business is successful. Thus, as the theory goes, they will work harder and perform better. And surely no-one can deny Green has worked hard? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 1 million will be tuppence to what the directors and investors have put in so far. I'm not sure what you mean by tuppence unless you are saying they doubled their money... They put in about 10m say. A return of 10% for all them in one year would be a good investment. However I'm saying the CEO should get 10% back. If they collectively made £5m that would be a great return. The business world would barely exist if people couldn't get rich and see a company thrive. As I've said, I don't see football as somewhere that entrepreneurs should be making a killing - it's not buying something for a pound and selling it for two while giving good value for money, it's exploiting the hearts and souls of people. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forlanssister 3,060 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Personally, I'm not shocked by what Green & Co. are making out of this. Seems to be fairly standard from what I have seen in industry. To get top quality management you need to pay the going rate. In fact, £350k is not that much but the options make it worthwhile. If you care to take a look back at the companies Green has previously been associated with then there's certainly a big doubt as to whether we're getting the "top quality management" we'll be paying for, his previous forays into the world of football Sheffield United, Kingsbridge Holdings and Formation Group certainly casts doubt on his business skills. What matters is not the fact of paying this kind of money but making sure these guys perform. And if they do, the value they will bring will far outweigh what they make. But, we also need to be able to get rid of them when they don't perform. We were not able to get rid of Murray when he lost over £140 million in just a few years and Bain never justified his salary either. Failure of the support to invest in this IPO will make it much harder for us to hold management to account. That, in my view is the big downside of all this. Far from making it harder for us to hold management to account abstaining from the IPO may in fact make it easier for us to do so. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplythebest 0 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean by tuppence unless you are saying they doubled their money... They put in about 10m say. A return of 10% for all them in one year would be a good investment. However I'm saying the CEO should get 10% back. If they collectively made £5m that would be a great return. As I've said, I don't see football as somewhere that entrepreneurs should be making a killing - it's not buying something for a pound and selling it for two while giving good value for money, it's exploiting the hearts and souls of people. I can deal with people simply making some dough, Murray and Whyte nearly killed the club altogether. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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