PM David Cameron backs Rangers and Celtic move to Premier League

[UCF2008 0]

ideology rather than reality? Really?

 

The figures I quoted, from the UK govt, the (pre-SNP ) Scottish Government and other non SNP/independence sources *are* the reality. The only ideology on show here is your own, where everything you say comes from a pro-union standpoint. Your mind is made up already and you seem happy to dismiss any facts that don't support that position and make sweeping statements with little basis in fact.

 

You ignore the fact that we pay more and owe less than the rest of the UK and yet still ask how we would pay for an infrastructure that you say we lack. In fact, Scotland, like the rest of the UK, has one of the world's most highly developed infrastructures - we don't lack anything needed to be independent.

 

You ignore the fact that Scotland will be an exporter of energy for decades to come - irrespective of the territorial waters England stole under your unionist government - and that this industry, both carbon and renewable, will be a gold mine for a nation of 5 million. Christ, let's *give* England half the oil - we would still have far more than we need.

 

And then, once we're free of them, we can start to implement economic policies that suit our economy rather than the economy of south-east england.

 

For example, 15 years ago, we used to export more per head of population than either Japan or Germany.

True; look it up.

Then the 'boom' came and it was party time; the City of London was making billions every day.

 

Problem was, that they were selling 'services' and they needed the Pound to be as strong as possible so that they could make as much profit as possible. We, in Scotland, however, were making 'things' to export (food, whisky, textiles, computers etc) so we needed a weaker pound to help our exports.

 

Guess who got screwed on that one? Westminster allowed the pound to remain artificially strong for far too long. Result? Big banker's bonuses for them; job losses and factory closures for us.

 

Our manufacturing is now only half of what it was 15 years ago because the economic policies followed by Westminster were aimed at the services sector of England's south east and ignored the manufacturing base of the rest of the UK.

 

My conversion to the independence viewpoint comes as a result of looking at the facts and figures of the debate; it is a rational decision and nothing to do with ideology.

 

You actually seem to agree with the basis and facts of most of the points I make, - "The facts and figures look great but they assume we can actually take everything that's rightfully ours." - but dismiss the idea that we, well, can actually take everything that's rightfully ours.

 

You're right in one respect; my arguments are based on facts and figures and on the assumption that we will control what is ours and that international law will apply to us as it is applied to every other country.

 

If, on the other hand, we are to be denied what is rightfully and legally our and if international law is to be flouted and ignored, then, yes, your argument is the one which would be correct.

 

I don't ignore any facts you've put forward. I've just been focusing more on the 'facts' I take issue with for being either incorrect, out of date or pure conjecture. Like I said I do agree with a lot of what you're saying in principal just like I also said I don't have much time for politics in general. You obviously do and good on you for standing up for what you believe in.

 

At this point I'm happy to concede defeat in our little debate and leave it at that. One last thing though to get back on topic - What's your stance on us moving to england? :devil:

[The Real PapaBear 0]

What's your stance on us moving to england? :devil:

 

Damn you, Moriarity! I am undone!

 

Nah, seriously mate -said it before, will say it again. The SFA and SPL can go fuck themselves slowly in a sandpit. I would love for us to move to England and leave the rest of them to rot - but I don't see that as being contradictory to an Independence philosophy.

 

Vindictive, petty and spiteful, yes. Hypocritical, no.

 

These corrupt scumbags have only ever done us harm and were it not for the SFL, we'd be screwed, so afaiac they can gft.

 

Rangers is not a public service, and far less important than healthcare, education or transport, so if we move elsewhere the only people who will suffer are the rats who tried to kill us.

Scotland, as a country, won't be in the least bothered or affected by our playing in a different league and any income we generate will still go into the local economy; we'll still need pies, burgers, programmes, etc etc - it just won't go into the coffers of SPL clubs.

 

And if the day comes when we do move, I would make a point of ensuring that we did everything we could do for the SFL - testimonials, pre-season friendlies etc - as a way of remembering who our friends were when we needed them.

[UCF2008 0]

One of Green's comments which sort of slipped in under the radar during the whole Whytegate barrage of reporting might be of relevance to this topic.

 

He said “I hope this won’t be a £50million company like it is on the stock market today — it will be valued at £500million or £1billion.

 

“I walked round the Houses of Parliament two weeks ago. I was looking to catch the sight of famous statesmen yet people were staring at ME. Rangers have more MPs as fans than any other British club.”

 

Source article: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/scottishnews/4874398/Allys-plea-for-villain-Whytes-return-to-Ibrox.html#ixzz2PpvFWjjp

[The Real PapaBear 0]

If we were discussion CG's delusional fantasies and smokescreens, I could see where you're coming from but I'm not sure how this relates to us moving to England, bud.

[UCF2008 0]

If we were discussion CG's delusional fantasies and smokescreens, I could see where you're coming from but I'm not sure how this relates to us moving to England, bud.

 

Assuming Green wasn't just making this up then it puts him in the Houses of Parliament two weeks ago meeting with MP's for what reason?

 

Taking into account Cameron's comments from the OP which followed days later it doesn't take a genius to work out there's probably been some high level discussions taking place.

 

Also I found his comment about the number of Rangers supporting MP's interesting since we only ever seem to hear about Westminster CSC.