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26 minutes ago, ian1964 said:

SPFL: Why does league seem so worried about independent inquiry?

 

By Tom English

BBC Scotland

 

Last Friday, through their non-executive director Karyn McCluskey, the SPFL issued a 700-word open letter basically saying 'there's nothing to see here' in terms of the questions being asked about its corporate governance.

On Tuesday, through its chairman Murdoch MacLennan, the body issued another open letter - 755 words - basically saying the same thing: nothing to see, please move along.

On Wednesday, a third open letter - 4,252 words now - landed, and once more the entire thing could be boiled down to the same line - nothing to see folks, please stop going on about this, nothing untoward happened.

Also on Wednesday, SPFL chief executive Neil Doncaster finally stepped out of the shadows and went public for the first time since this saga erupted. From him, through a range of different interviews, there was a reinforcement of the same mantra.

The more the SPFL says that there's nothing to see, the more the interest is piqued, the more you wonder why it is going to such lengths to close down the possibility of an independent inquiry.

It has questioned the motives of those clubs that are calling for transparency (somewhat lacking in self-awareness, it has in the next breath called for reconciliation). It has talked about "distractions, scapegoating and sideshows".

It has effectively warned all clubs that if they vote for an inquiry, they will be spending vast amounts of their own money on an investigation that is "wholly unnecessary and inappropriate". How much money? The SPFL doesn't say.

It has also gone another route in an attempt to dissuade clubs from getting on board the inquiry train. "At a time when thousands of people in our communities are dying of Covid-19, Scottish football needs to reflect and consider how this looks to the outside world," the SPFL says.

What's being said there? That because of the continuing horror that is Covid-19, nobody should asking be questions of the way the SPFL is doing its business? That because of coronavirus, the SPFL should be spared scrutiny and allowed to carry on without full accountability to all of its members?

'Why not let this all play out?'

It's worth remembering how much work Rangers, Hearts and Stranraer have to do in order to secure the inquiry they're looking for. They need 75% of clubs in each division to sign up to it.

In the Premiership, that's nine out of 12 they must win over. Already we know that Motherwell and Hamilton are against it, given they have members on the very SPFL board that are fighting so hard to bring it down.

We can also bet the house on Celtic being against it. That means all of the other nine must back the inquiry or else it's dead in the water. If this was a football match, the SPFL board would be 5-0 up with time running out and yet its constant open letters and the sudden mobilisation of Doncaster suggests concern.

MacLennan has been chairman of the SPFL for almost three years and in that time he hasn't done a single interview with a journalist. Now, suddenly, he's banging out the statements at a rate that would shame the Rangers communications department. It's curious.

Rangers may have already started to deliver their dossier of evidence to clubs, but it's quite simple. If they have compelling evidence of wrongdoing - they're alleging that clubs have been bullied and coerced by the SPFL - then they'll be doing the game a great service by revealing it.

If they don't have compelling evidence, then they're going to embarrass themselves for creating such a hubbub, including a call for Doncaster's suspension. If all they've got is a bottle of smoke, they'll be mortified in public view.

The SPFL board is convinced that nothing questionable occurred. "There is no wrongdoing here," said Les Gray, of Hamilton and a member of the SPFL's hierarchy. "We are absolutely certain of that."

Gray was speaking on Radio Scotland 10 days ago. Quite how he could be so certain is debatable given that he had no sight of Rangers' documentation and hadn't appeared to have spoken to other clubs who have privately expressed their own concerns about how the SPFL behaved in the lead-up to the vote to call the leagues.

He was certain, though. And he's far from alone. MacLennan is certain, too. With such conviction, why not step back and let this play itself out? If the endgame is to be a total exoneration of the board, a total humiliation of those casting aspersions on the board and an end of the suspension and innuendo for all time, then what's not to like?

If there's nothing to fear, and if the odds are overwhelmingly in their favour of being cleared of any of the current allegations, why are they on the rampage to close down the possibility of the inquiry? They should be encouraging it.

'Rangers must take their best shot'

MacLennan sought to answer some questions in his open letter on Wednesday. He got something of an easy ride, which was not surprising given that the person interrogating him was, er, himself. His Q&A, though lengthy, was not all that helpful.

What did Doncaster say to Dundee's John Nelms in order to turn his no vote into a cancelled vote into the decisive yes vote? We still don't know.

Why were clubs told that the only way to release funds - their own prize money - was by voting with the SPFL and closing down the season? Why weren't offers of advances against the clubs' own prize money made by the SPFL?

Why did certain clubs in the Championship say on a WhatsApp group that they were being leaned on to vote yes? Has any SPFL board member spoken to those clubs? Why did Doncaster tell Aberdeen's Dave Cormack that their vote was irrelevant?

The extraordinary general meeting is scheduled for 12 May, but the truth is that almost every day is proving extraordinary in this increasingly bitter affair.

The best thing that can happen now is for Rangers to publish whatever evidence they think they have. They need to take their best shot. A howitzer into the top corner or a miscue that hits the corner flag - the sooner we know, the better.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52472024

Decent summary of events from English. You can tell he smells some blood here. And in one sense he can't lose. Either the SPFL or Rangers get stuffed by this and he gets to write about it. He wants this played out to a conclusion and not shut down like Doncaster and his cronies. You have to wonder what they are scared of. Because it's clear they want this stopped and no scrutiny to take place.

Rangers should hold on to what we have despite all the clamour for disclosure. Keep them sweating a few more days Rangers. Who knows what other ammunition they might inadvertently provide us.

1 hour ago, Bill said:

As soon as anyone dares speak the truth about Celtic the foot soldiers are sent out to bleat about Irish persecution and anti-Catholic bigotry. 

Yes it's not like he is attacking all Irish clubs or all clubs in catholic countries.

Just one club. One like no other, when it comes to harboring, employing, and re-employing, paedophiles. 

36 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Does anyone actually think Doncaster is worth his exorbitant salary?  

A certain CEO at the Piggery for sure. He thinks his (place)man is doing a splendid job and probably deserves a raise.

25 minutes ago, buster. said:

The scope of the Deloitte investigation is almost laughable but reality is that it will probably help the SPFL to persuade enough clubs to shelve the whole affair and get on with the crisis management surrounding C19. Hardly convincing it is not a difficult sell in these circumstances.

 

Part of me now looks toward the existential threat coming into focus for football clubs, including our own and wonders why we continue on this route. If there was a realistic chance of getting 75% of clubs to vote in favour of a resolution for an Independent Inquiry, then perhaps but I don´t think there is.....What would happen after that ?

 

Some of the posters who know about finance point towards an IMMEDIATE prioritisation and action regards getting costs as low as possible. As well as bringing in as much revenue as possible.

 

Today we hear from Club1872 that season ticket renewal time is close.

Perhaps the move regards the SPFL actually does have something to do with the real priority, perhaps not.

 

 

The still hidden trump card that could inject disinfectant into the 6th floor at Hampden, to clean it out so to speak and render some of what is written above as pish, is the Whistleblower evidence/dossier. 

 

Given what we have said, how do we get it out there if the clubs do not vote for an Independent Inquiry ?

Would then going a legal route (if this were to be the next option) be feasible and give us a realistic chance of success.

What would that success look like and would it be worth the money spent at a time of impending financial crisis?

 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of that. The Deloitte PR stunt yesterday was a blatant attempt to wrestle back the narrative from days of negative press and collective dismay at how the SPFL have fucked this up. When even the likes of Scrote are highlighting the limited scope of the investigation (basically "look at what we show you and tell us what we want to hear") then you know there is more mileage in this.

The lack of any football right now has created a vacuum where stories like this are food for hungry jounro's. It's all they have to write about. In normal times, with games going on this would have been dropped a few days after the initial vote and Dundee handing in their updated YES vote. But now it's the one story guaranteed to sell papers and generate clicks and hopefully more than a few of the press smell blood in the water. They are no fans of Rangers, or friends to us in normal times, but they don't like the arrogance of the current crop at the top of the SPFL either and in the absence of anything else they aren't going to give this up. Ironically, I don't think there will be a better chance for a total clear out of Doncaster and his cabal. Large sections of the press would love to get their scalps and they sense something here too.

We need to keep the pressure on. There is no football on the horizon to distract them and the likes of Euan Murray and Tom English have gone too far down the road now that if they somehow decided to back off they would lose all credibility. If Rangers can seem fair and reasonable and feed their agenda for nailing Doncaster they will keep running with this. Celtic can't counter it without exposing themselves because they have so much to gain from the current situation and the SPFL are on their own and exposed to a level of scrutiny and pressure that they never have been since Doncaster came in. 

I think the request for a copy of the SPFL's whistleblower policy was clever, because I bet it didn't exist before Rangers asked for it. The new EGM request is important and costs us nothing. If we get an EGM, it heaps further scrutiny on the SPFL and forces them to call in whatever favours they still can in order to vote a reasonable request down. I don't think for one minute we will get the 32 votes we need but we can get to a point where we can reasonably say we have tried every avenue short of legal action and been blocked from showing our evidence at every turn. Then it's time for court action and hopefully what we have from the whistleblower will be the end of Doncaster and his cronies. 

34 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I agree with the sentiment but our recent court appearances don't leave me confident.  Thistle would surely be in a better position, as they are facing relegation.  

 

I'd prefer it if the SPFL was shown up for what it is without Rangers having to lift a finger.

It's definitely best if it comes from Partick Thistle. The SPFL has announced that they are relegated and hopefully that's a stain that Thistle will want removed regardless of any attempt at half hearted league reconstruction. Thistle have the stronger moral high ground than we do in this.

However someone has to challenge this and if Thistle can't then we have to. This is about fixing a vote to get the outcome you wanted all along and blatantly lying and covering things up along the way. If this is allowed to stand unchallenged then this isn't a league any more. It's a rigged farce designed to benefit one club and one club alone. Doncaster and his cronies will feel like they can get away with anything, because after this they can.

There are several things that have to be in place in order to deliver a proper opportunity of achieving a better foundation for Scottish Football’s future.  First, a working group should be assembled and must have members from the highest levels of Scottish Football with long-term interest in the future success of the game.  We need to agree a set of goals that will be the basis of reconstruction which takes into account current and future wants and needs of media; member clubs’ financial benefits; and sporting integrity as a basis.  It is our belief that after speaking to numerous clubs that the appetite for reconstruction is there and the intention is to set up an immediate and focused working group to take on this task.  The centre will have to accept and support the will of the members.

Ha ha ha. Does anyone seriously think any of this would happen with the current executives in place? They would only do it if they were dragged kicking screaming to do it. Or more likely it could only happen if Doncaster and his cabal were turfed out and a new Chief Executive, Legal Representative and Chairman were appointed. How about Dundee grow some balls and call for that. Then they might claw back an iota of respect.

19 minutes ago, Little General said:

You've got to laugh.

They have been rumbled and are trying to spin out of it.

Spot on. No amount of spin is going to get them out of the hole they created for themselves when they didn't stick their guns and reject Doncaster's attempted bribery out of hand.

9 hours ago, ian1964 said:

SPFL chief Murdoch MacLennan is set to order a probe into Dundee’s mystery email.

SunSport understands the league chairman has decided they need to investigate the circumstances of how it supposedly went missing during last Friday’s vote.

And that could even involve asking to check Dens Park secretary Eric Drysdale’s email account to provide time stamps.

The issue of what happened as the Tayside club tried to cast a decisive no ballot has become central to the fallout from the contentious vote to bring the current season to an end.

Dundee secretary Drysdale claimed in a WhatsApp group with Partick Thistle and Inverness representatives that he’d pressed send on the correspondence at 4.48pm - but it didn’t arrive with the league.

Nelms then subsequently emailed to say disregard anything they received and consider his club as having not voted - a position he still maintains today.

MacLennan admitted in a statement on Sunday that Dundee’s slip DID arrive later that evening, but the league dismissed it in accordance with Nelms' instruction.

The events of what happened in between Drysdale sending and it actually landing in the SPFL inbox has caused huge ructions across the game.

Now MacLennan feels he needs to dig deeper into the issue in search of answers.

The SPFL chair on Sunday demanded to see the proof of wrongdoing Rangers have claimed to possess and is now expected to follow that up with a formal letter to interim chairman Douglas Park.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5493426/spfl-murdoch-maclennan-order-probe-dundee-mystery-email/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1586901962

What planet is MacLennan on and what credibility does he think he has left? At the weekend he exonerated Doncaster and Laidlaw of any wrongdoing and said that everything had been done properly. A not so polite "Shut up and fuck off while we wait for Dundee to hand in their Yes vote after they accept whatever crumbs fall of our table." Now, at the threat of an interim interdict from Partick Thistle, he says "Oh we might have to have a look at what happened on Friday after all."

Perhaps he is planning that the SPFL should employ the same investigators who are going through the emotional carnage generated by Celtic Boys Club on behalf of its Separate Entity - so that after a lengthy and uncommitted search through the long grass we'll still have no answers in 3 years time.

The sooner this useful idiot is shown the door the better.

Just now, buster. said:

Now that is a statement that delivers and if the detailed legal opinion was to be anywhere near valid then the SPFL will currently be going through a damage limitation exercise. 

Yes and it's nice for Rangers not to feel alone in this struggle, as has happened so many times in the past.

We have to keep the pressure on until the rats are cleared out.

4 minutes ago, buster. said:

To have something that will stick against the Teflon CEO (lawyer), the overweight lawyer and the organ grinder is asking a lot.

 

That lot will not leave many submissible tracks.

In normal times when things could be done face to face between individuals with no record kept, I would agree with you Buster. But if this was all done via remote electronic meetings, emails and whatsapp then it's possibly to track it and verify who said what to whom and when it was said to establish the exact timeline. There are too many threads in too many places for just the SPFL to cover up. Somehow there has to be a push for an independent investigation and if that means the police coming in an seizing evidence while that investigation goes on then I'm all for it.

If the SPFL really have nothing to hide ? then they would be open to scrutiny. We all know they have plenty to hide here.

4 minutes ago, buster. said:

I wonder if Dundee might get some attractive loan deals coming from the top tier next season.

Purely coincidentally of course.

38 minutes ago, CammyF said:

Daily Rebel now reporting Dundee' s Nelms has spent the weekend attempting to offer sweetheart deals to rival lower league clubs which would include diluting money's to other clubs (including DUFC) and claim they have email evidence. 

 

The obvious question is, on whose authority are any of these offers being made? Dundee don't control the SPFL purse strings so who has apparently given them authority to make any kind of offer to anyone?  I think we need to be told. But I'm sure we won't be.

5 minutes ago, buster. said:

I struggle to see how we´re realistically going to be successful in preventing Celtic eventually being declared as having finished first in an incomplete league season unless the Null & Void option was taken in various other leagues. Apart from the fact that we are the only club bothered and we have few friends out there, in an incomplete season, how would European qualification be determined if positions aren´t called ?

 

For me, given circumstances you probably have to call the positions but don´t necessarily have to award a title and certainly regarding the 9IAR issue, it can´t morally be included, ie. back to 8 for the start of next season. Then you reconstruct the league so as to limit severe damage to certain clubs.

 

I agree. I think the positions will ultimately get called as they stand but the problem is the resolution presented for the vote had all the titles, promotion and relegation strands interwoven into it. Clubs couldn't get their money unless they agreed to declare Celtic champions, Dundee United champions and the three teams bottom of the leagues as relegated. It was accept this or don't get your money when you are desperate just to survive. They could have done it differently and limited the damage to member clubs. They chose not to and said take it or leave it expecting to get the outcome they wanted.

Whether Celtic are gifted 9 in a row is less important than ensuring that meaningful change comes to the top of the SPFL. Doncaster and as much of his corrupt cabal as possible are cleared out and maybe we get some balance back to the organisation that is meant to look after the interests of all clubs - not just Celtic. That's a fight worth fighting but it will take other clubs to grow some balls and stand up for themselves here too. Not just leave Rangers swinging in the wind as they have done so often.

1 hour ago, buster. said:

I think the priority would be (within extraordinary circumstances), to mitigate preventable damage to certain clubs (eg. Hearts, P.Thistle, etc) whilst taking into consideration an option to review the structure the following summer.

 

The SPFL wanted to more or less push through everything in one go and didn´t appear to care much for several member clubs at an unprecedented time.

Exactly. And you can only wonder why it had to go through now, in so much haste, and presented as a take it or you don't get your money scenario to most clubs? Who could possibly stand to benefit most from such an outcome? It couldn't possibly be a certain team across the city.

Do you seriously think any form of league reconstruction would have been on the table if they had got the votes they needed for this to pass on Friday? Any proposals would have got the same treatment as Rangers' proposal got on Thursday, i.e. deemed somehow "incompetent" on whatever technicality they fancied dreaming up. Celtic would get their tainted title and Hearts and Thistle and Stranraer would have been fucked and that would have been the end of it.

21 minutes ago, buster. said:

Dundee can revoke their original intention, if negative.

IMO the issue is more why and the mechanics of how that took place.

ie. dark shennanigans from SPFL and/or other actors...and that is what I´d hope the whistleblower evidence clearly uncovers.

 

Dundee can only revoke that vote because the result was not declared - because the SPFL didn't get the result they wanted. If the vote was genuinely outstanding and they didn't already know that it was a NO (no laughing at the back there) then common sense as well as the legality of the vote would dictate that no information on any of the outcomes should have released until all votes were in or the legal deadline for voting had elapsed, as per any established voting process. Basically we should all still be in the dark and potentially waiting 28 days to hear the outcome. Instead that principle was thrown out of the window and they released as many votes as they had to make it clear that one more YES vote was all that was needed while they went back to Dundee with all the pressure and sweeteners they could muster to get the outcome they wanted.

Absolutely we have to focus on the process and the mechanics of the vote because those have been flouted to ensure that the "right" outcome was reached by whatever means. That's where Rangers and other clubs have their strongest case and Doncaster and his cronies will find it hardest to wriggle out of it.

I hope the whistleblower has some really damning evidence. The way the SPFL are doubling down with every response, we are going to need it.

1 minute ago, buster. said:

14 team league 

2 rounds of games (26)

split

2 rounds of games (12)

26 + 12 = 38

Possible. Dull as fuck though. Below the split line that's a long time and a lot of games just to decide who goes down. It's bad enough with just 5 rounds to play. And a lot of clubs miss out on one more home against the OF than they are currently getting. Can't see it being widely popular with lots of current mid tier SPL clubs.

Plus it wasn't mentioned in the voting options for SPFL members and wasn't on the table for discussion....until 5pm on Friday. And only with respect to one club it would appear.

8 hours ago, ian1964 said:

Dundee chief John Nelms prepares to push for league reconstruction guarantee in bid to end SPFL vote impasse

Under-fire Dundee managing director John Nelms is to push for a league reconstruction guarantee to help end Scottish football’s vote chaos.

The SPFL remain hopeful that the Dark Blues can still be persuaded to back their plan to end the season below the Premiership. It hangs in the balance, waiting for Nelms and his board to make a decision.

A photograph of a voting slip, signed by the American and dated Friday, has emerged as proof that the club had intended rejecting the league’s proposal.

In a dramatic move, Dundee decided at the last minute to hang fire and now stand alone as the club that has the fate of the Championship, League One and League Two in their hands.

The top flight have said yes, the third and fourth tiers likewise, leaving just the Championship to be decided. Seven clubs in that division have backed the resolution, including runaway leaders Dundee United, while Inverness Caley Thistle and Partick Thistle have said no. It needs eight to adopt the proposal.

That all leaves Nelms being lobbied and it is understood no fewer than four SPFL board members held crisis talks with the American on Saturday, a clear indication that they think he is not necessarily a hard no vote.

Courier Sport also believes Dundee won’t be saying anything publicly regarding their situation until the dust settles following a stormy few days.

Their strategy going forward, though, appears to be to get a motion passed by the clubs that would give a written guarantee regarding reconstruction for the 2020-21 season, whenever that kicks off.

 

The plan is believed to be for a 14-10-10-10 set-up that would see them stay in the Championship, with United and second-placed Inverness promoted.

Dundee’s thinking is that it would benefit their own team in the long-term and that it would win the support of the required number of SPFL members.

The problem of relegation from the top division would be solved as Hearts would stay up but the challenge will be persuading other Premiership sides to spread their income across an extra two clubs.

It would, though, allow the millions of pounds’ worth of place money being held by the SPFL to be distributed to cash-starved teams with immediate effect and would give meaning and merit to the Dark Blues’ decision not to vote on Friday.

Nelms, meanwhile, received some sympathy from Ross County chairman Roy MacGregor, whose club backed the SPFL plan.

The Staggies chief said: “I am really sorry for Dundee and John Nelms. He is a fine man.

“For whatever reason, they have decided to hold their position, which seems is what they’ve done, and I’m sure it will be for a genuine reason that will come out in due course.

“For whatever reason, John felt he could maybe be more diplomatic and get a solution if his vote was the critical one.

“It’s very difficult and I wouldn’t like to, as a club, be in that position now.”

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-fc/1261153/dundee-managing-director-john-nelms-prepares-to-push-for-league-reconstruction-guarantee-in-bid-to-end-spfl-vote-impasse/?utm_source=twitter

This article intrigues and worries me. If Dundee are going to be leaking anything I suspect it will be to their local rag so the suggestion of a 14-10-10-10 set up is new and hasn't been mentioned before as far as I know. There are obvious advantages in it as a quick fix for the SPFL in the current shit storm because it removes the threat of relegation from the likes of Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer and undercuts the support that we might be relying on for removing Doncaster and ensuring wider reform. You can bet Doncaster will try his best to stay in place and cover his tracks if Dundee do cave in.

However how the hell would a 14 team SPL work? Three rounds of 13 games and then a 7-7 split to play 46 games? You can't be serious.

If this is seriously being discussed between Dundee and the 4 SPFL board members noted in the article, who has given these board members the authority to negotiate on behalf of the league with what is effectively a "rogue" club?

Why was this apparently ongoing "negotation" not mentioned by the SPFL Chairman in his (not conflicted) statement yesterday?

It clear that Dundee's original NO vote was discarded. They were seen as potentially the most pliable of the three dissenting Championship clubs and by hook or by crook they are being compelled/bribed/coerced to change their vote. A banana republic could have handled this better.

This ought to end up in court with the Dundee Company secretary questioned under oath to establish the precise timeline of events and when their NO vote was sent. That establishes their original and uninfluenced intention. Everything after that is deception and potentially criminal.

Is another tainted title for Celtic really worth all of these lies and making the game in Scotland look even more of a laughing stock than it currently does?

Absolutely no way. They aren't having the Broomloan again. Ever!

European refs know the rules and apply them consistently. That's all that we want and why European games are a relative pleasure. The rules ought to be the same for everyone. But in Scotland when Rangers are playing each ref seems to have a different set of "house rules" that only operate in Rangers games and can be applied without fear of contradiction no matter how stupid. Deliberate handball suddenly not being bookable and handball not being handball if its a bit windy and it's not a Rangers player handling it, being perhaps the two most obvious examples so far this year.

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

They are not mistakes -- other than Barker, I'd say, and the [early] loanees.

 

The profiles are good: youngsters with potential; solid, experienced Premier League players. 

 

Where I agree, is that we've got our priorities wrong: squad players instead of quality first team players. 

Agree up to a point but we have probably been hoping for too much from some of those experienced players. Davis blows hot and cold, and especially cold if opposition midfielders harry him and don't give him space. Defoe is excellent and looks like he genuinely cares. He still offers a real threat but too often we are lumping balls in to him rather than looking for something whipped in low from wide positions for him to run on to. His injury hasn't helped us at a critical time. McCauley was a fucking disaster and a complete waste of time and money. We should not be relying so much on players at the fag end of their careers. They can do it in the odd game but over a whole season they are going to give you quite a few games like yesterday.

Other than Defoe I don't think these veterans have necessarily improved the younger players as much as we would have hoped they would. Maybe I'm wrong but I would rather have taken players 4-5 years younger and with more energy because in the league we're in you can't carry passengers and too often the likes of Davis are passengers.

18 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

I should add that without the defensive mistakes we may well have escaped with a replay.

 

I suspect we were playing for a replay until Hearts scored.  Kamara was about to come on but then Hearts scored and Hagi went on instead.

If we really we just playing for a replay at 0-0 then that's worse in my eyes. That's just gutless. And it's not like we ever looked like keeping a clean sheet. 

11 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said:

Edmundson had a few shocking mistakes.  He's the most junior defender in the squad and I'm inclined to be more forgiving in his case.  I wonder if we should have brought in another veteran for situations like this.

Well we did in the form of Helander but his long term injury has probably cost us more than any of us realised at the time. Edmundson was expected to be 4th choice centre back behind Goldson, Katic and Helander so we can't blame him too much. Nobody foresaw how Goldson and Katic would turn into headless chickens since the turn of the year. We should not be getting caught out with long balls as often as we have been. That's just basic defending and it's not like we are up against Messi or Ronaldo week in week out.

7 hours ago, Walterbear said:

Wouldn’t argue with any of those 3. Defenders can’t constantly give goals away, Davies great player but twylight, Morelos - need the cash and he misses too many games. 
 

 

Six weeks ago I would have prayed that Alfie stayed another season but it's looking like he can't wait to get away and we can't go on like this. Davis is a passenger in too many games and Tav has been too inconsistent (when he's bad he's not just below par he's fucking terrible). Chuck Barker and Ojo out with them and you have the start of a decent clear out. Unbelievable that it's come to this after the ecstasy at the Piggery before New Year.

23 minutes ago, Blue Moon said:

I didn't manage to see the game tonight but don't need to to know what the problems are with this schizophrenic Rangers team .  Without a doubt we are short of quality backup.  Morelos, our outstanding player who can win matches single handedly, has been looking for a while like he's going through the motions.  Defensive frailties have cost us dear too.  Every combination has been tried and they just aren't good enough and I include Goldson in  that.  We don't have a single leader on the park.  We've done well in Europe because we've got the space to play.  This team doesn't have the heart for the domestic game.

Not right now but they had it in spades in November and December with the highlight the win at the Piggery. The players can be good enough when they want to play but they just aren't doing it with any consistency or desire to actually win something. It's like they think they climbed the mountain when we beat Celtic at their place when all that meant was that we had drawn level but we needed to focus and stay ahead. They had the best chance any Rangers team has had in years and they have blown it within 2 months.

I can't even begin to fathom how a team goes from heroes to zeros that fast. And I bet SG is wondering the same.

5 minutes ago, CammyF said:

Sorry but it was the right call on Alfredo. His discipline is shocking and to turn up late after given time off is latest in long line of him letting us done. Manager was left wirh no other option and I'll back him to the hilt on that. 

 

For the 2nd game in a row at Tynecastle, Naismyth is completely bossed the game. He is finished as a player but I'd love 11 players with his fight, drive and determination in our team. Made our Captain look like a Girl Guide (no disrespect to Girl Guides). 

 

 

In normal circumstances if we had another striker able to play tonight from the start I would agree with you Cammy but we were hamstrung (figuratively) tonight by lack of other personnel. Gerrard's decision has effectively thrown away an option that would have given us a focal point at least against Hearts. If Alfie had put in another disinterested performance then it wouldn't have been SG's fault. As it was that decision robbed us of any real physical presence up front until we had to start chucking the centre halfs up in desperation at the end.

I agree about Naismith. He had a fire in his belly tonight and I wish any one of our players had shown a fraction of his desire.