D'Artagnan

It is still open.

Is it ? Some of the boys on the KP bus said the St Mirren game would be their last ever bus from there

From the opening line re Jum's spaver connection to the summation I enjoyed every minute of that read. Superb.

I just read on Newsnow that bluenose pub Annie Millers is closing permanently this weekend. On Friday they are are auctioning off Rangers memorabilia.

Sad to see it go. I've sank many a pint in there on my days out.

And the Red Lion at KP closed it doors for the last time a few weeks ago.

For years we have watched our club and support being dehumanised - implored a succession of boards via blogs and meetings to abandon the utterly mental strategy of "dignified silence", warned repeatedy about where this would end up (often to ridicule from our own) but to no avail.

Listened to Sir David Murray tell our fans "If a publication offends - dont buy it" while every coward with a keyboard satisfied the appetite of the hate filled with inaccurate and poisonous articles, blogs and columns about our club and support.

I will never forget the story Colin Glass told at the inaugural meeting of the RST - about a mother who was reluctant to buy her son a Rangers top because she was operating under the misconception that our club were "openly racist".

This is the legacy the current board have inherited - we speak often of Ashley & his cohorts and the damage they have done - but the reality is the cowardice, incompetence and intransigence goes alot further back.

After Saturday's events our board could have issued a very run of the mill statement condemning the violence blah blah blah. That would have been the easy and safe option.

Instead however they seized the opportunity to draw a very clear line in the sand. They faced head on a succession of Rangers haters, challenged those whose abdication of responsibility should make them ashamed and defended every single one of us who wear the blue of our beloved Rangers.

I honestly think the statement carries a far more significant message than just the words contained therein

It’s been over 48 hours since the Scottish Cup Final and its aftermath which shamed Scotland. A catalogue of failings by the authorities involved who now are, surprise surprise, charged with the responsibility of investigating themselves in order to establish what went wrong. Clearly we have learned very little from the lessons of Hillsborough and the need for independent investigation.

Of course we have had a powerful statement from Rangers on the matter calling for a full and independent enquiry. That statement was not only powerful, apparently it was “verbose, clunking and pitiful” to paraphrase the egotistical idiot which is Graham Spiers. Funnily enough the PFA Scotland, which also called for a full and independent enquiry did not draw the same criticism from the mercurial idiot. Perhaps he had at long last returned to his village.

Of course the latter’s statement did not criticise elements of the media which seem to have got so many journalists upset. BBC Scotland issued their own statement saying the Rangers criticism of their staff was “unwarranted”. One of those staff members – Stuart Cosgrove – was involved in a fairly acrimonious dust up on air with his co-presenter, Tam Cowan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07c68nv#play

Let’s stop a minute here. Stuart Cosgrove wanted to play down, minimalise, avoid speaking about a set of circumstances which shamed us as a football nation, endangered and terrified spectators, saw players and staff verbally and physically abused, saw match officials forced to act as a cordon to protect the safety of players, criminal damage inflicted upon the national stadium – all before a watching world. Are we really better served by such an attitude of “Sweep sweep – nothing to see here move along?” As Roger Mitchell the former SPL chief commented to me on Twitter “And this is the bbc. The organ of record? Changed days”

Only in Scotland could a statement about civil disorder cause more discussion than the civil disorder itself – especially when the authors of that statement are Rangers.

Beyond the arguments of who did what to whom is a far more serious issue to be debated and that is the abject failure of crowd control on Saturday. It is absolutely tragic that over 48 hours after the event, a multitude of camera footage, photo stills, mobile phone footage as well as numerous eye witness accounts, many neutral and objective, we are still no further on than playing a blame game. Do people honestly believe that Rangers are making it up about staff being assaulted, spat upon and verbally abused? Are those journalists who witnessed this and have attested to same also lying?

The focus should be on why the Police were so ill prepared for what transpired, how effective are stewards when faced with a non-compliant crowd and most importantly how do we prevent a recurrence?

If Scotland thought Saturday afternoon was an embarrassment – I hate to think how the post-match post mortem looks to anyone looking in.

Scandalous.

If it was my club I would be utterly ashamed.

D'Art, I wasn't aware of the social media projected intention of invasion, that certainly should have been picked up on. All in all I agree that the response and actions were woefully under prepared, my only thought was, given there were only a couple of minutes between goal and full time, the police were probably still responding given that there wasn't likely to be an invasion due to the expectation of extra time. They didn't react quick enough.

Neither was I bud - but in truth beyond tweeting Im not very familair with much of social media !

it was one of the callers on the Radio Scotland programme this morning who alluded to it.

While I agree with you. There's a consideration to be made that the late nature of the goal shifted the mood entirely and the police were likely caught napping, rather than anything more sinister. Had the score remained level at full time and gone to extra time, there'd likely have been no invasion. The late goal went in and the police were unable to react in time before the final whistle was blown?

I accept that Rabi but a no. of points I would make to you

The Police should have been alert to the possibility of an invasion given the 114 year wait the Hibs fans have had to endure.

Some Hibs fans this morning were saying their intention to invade was all over social media - this is a Police service which claims to pride itself on intelligence led Policing.

The Hibs fans on Radio Scotland this morning said it was evident aproaching FT that the Hibs fans intended to invade - the Police should have responded to that situation accordingly

No idea why you think I am denying what happened, or even casting doubt on it. What I want is to have it set in legal concrete and then to pursue everyone who has suggested it may be not that bad, especially as it's only Rangers & their fans.

 

Like banging yer heid off a brick fucking wall sometimes.

I have a certain sympathy Germinal for what you are trying to express here.

Every writing course I have undertaken ( and from my experience of writing for 25 years) has always stressed the importance of including the main message to the exclusion of the contentious or debatable. Our statement, much as I am pleased with it, didnt do that. The subsequent response of the likes of the impartial and fair Peter Adam Smith underlines that.

Tbh D'art, I don't think the important issue here is security. I'm not saying the attacks on our players aren't important but presuming that the measures put in place and/or the actual reaction from security were simply very poor and inadequate.

 

IMO the important is the underlying issues which you and others have already touched upon over the weekend. The issues that mean these type of incidents on whatever scale will almost certainly happen again.

 

Over and above the usual football rivalry we have had our problems over the past few years which have been jumped upon by our main rivals in a metaphorical call to arms to fans of other clubs so as to focus on and squeeze Rangers out every which way they can.....This has been magnified with creative use of social media.

 

The other main polarizing factor has been political and the lingering legacy of the referendum campaign.

 

Pointing this out is one thing, trying to address the matter in a constructive manner is at this point in time next to impossible.

I think to an extent because of the attempts to airbrush this we have all become caught up in the blame game.

Id say the most important feature was security & safety - had it not been for the restraint of the Rangers support there would have been a full scale riot on a par with 1980. Hibs fans intent on violence were allowed to run the whole length of the field and goad and intice Rangers supporters to fight. I was seated behind the goals and there was a group of Hibs standing in the 6 yard area of the goal egging Rangers fans to come and fight.

Our disabled supporters were absolutely swamped by invading Hibs fans - and a no. this morning have given accounts of how terrified they were via Radio Scotland.

Every Rangers player, and some backroom staff were subjected to some sort of physical or verbal abuse and the match officials - the bloody match officials !- had to provide a safety cordon around Andy Halliday.

The Police failed abysmally - the situation should have been controlled by Police resources being deployed at the half way line allowing the Hibs fans to express their jubilation in a containment exercise. They failed to do this despite their being ample evidence the Hibs fans intended to invade at FT. The Police were unprepared, lacked proper and effective decision making and most alarmingly sufficient resources.

As Rangers fans left we were almost knocked over by vanloads of arriving Police - too little too late.

Its a shame that the ridiculous attempts to play the whole situation down have detracted from what was quite simply a safety and security debacle which should never be allowed to repeat itself.

I don't think the standard statement would have registered.

Having players attacked on the pitch and the reaction to it has been sad but fairly predictable. A reaching of a 'line in the sand' of sorts that has been coming.

 

There is an undercurrent of hatred that is now going beyond the normal football rivalry levels, is becoming more widespread and manifests itself with people in roles of responsibility attempting to downplay attacks on players and many general supporters today online trying to deny it even happened.....and when faced with video evidence trying to present mitigating factors.

 

You could argue that parts of the statement further polarizes matters but there comes a time when a stand has to be made and you have to try and change the debate from what is relatively comfortable for the 'other side' into one that starts down a road to get to the underlying problems.

I agree Buster - the powerful nature of that statement ensured it became a talking point - a talking point some in the media such as Cosgrove were doing their damnest to sweep under the carpet.

Furthermore the agencies responsible for the review into Saturday's failings are lo and behold the same agencies who failed supporters so miserably on Saturday. Rangers were absolutely spot on to call for an full independent review. The lessons from Hillsborough have clearly not been learned.

3 of the organisations who failed supporters so miserably on Saturday are responsible for the review ??

No wonder the Rangers board statement called for a full independent enquiry.

We have learned nothing from Hillsborough.

The match day experience is ruined when supporters enter the field of play. The complete lack of action from police and stewards yesterday, coupled with the the disgusting downplaying of attacking players, has to be taken into account.

 

The Club have a duty to protect their employees, and that comes before yours or my match day experience.

 

The Club SHOULD take action and banning Hibs fans is one such method that sends a signal that the Club will defend the safety of its employees and fans.

I think there is a wider debate to be had there Craig and that is the use of stewards as opposed to Police. Quite simply its a cost cutting exercise which normally passes of without incident due to the behaviour of the vast majority of supporters.

Yesterday stewards were faced with a non-compliant crowd however and were powerless and unqualified to deal with it.

I listened to Cosgrove on the way home yesterday, and it was more of the same he has been espousing for the last two decades. Continued appeals not to over moralise, running interference, determinedly turning down the amplification, ..................................: actually, buying time until a line has been agreed. Cowan was undermined by the usual Beeb Scotland tactic of broadcasting the listeners' verdict. The show's Producer selected tweets and e-mails to be presented, culminating in blame being apportioned to, 'the Rangers supporters inability to accept defeat'.

 

Big Stu's interference was let's talk about the game and nothing should detract from Hibees enjoying tomorrow's(today's) open topped bus parade around Edinburgh.He read out the SFA statement and ridiculed it, determined it was their game and as such responsible for inadequate stewarding. He read the Rangers statement without comment, then read out an e-mail demanding action on sectarian chanting. Continually, he returned to how this would be reported south of the border. Generally, the Scottish Cup final would be a 20 second clip/item, now they'll be all over it, for all the wrong reasons. Finally, he questioned whether Wallace and McKay had shown anything to justify their Scotland call-ups?

 

Banging on about Cosgrove is important. He tells us that he works on behalf of the Scottish Government. He tells us he lunches with the Lord Advocate. He tells us he attends seminars at Hampden on the behaviour at football Act. He is the ESTABLISHMENT. He neglects to tell us how succulent the lamb is, at these events, but occasionally comments on catering provided. Again, he oft complains Rangers supporters won't let him forget his comfort blanket usage of the 'H' term and orange bastards, to describe Rangers supporters. His regret is focused on personal interest; he and his mucker(Eamon O'Neill) on the Media Review have produced pilots for the proposed Scottish Six. Their choice of vehicles to promote their work, Wings over Scotland and Bella Caledonia. I don't do twitter or Facebook, thus a genuine question; has any elected representitive of this country's establishment party commented on yesterday's scenes?

 

My professional life was about both individual and collective discipline. I recognise it when I see it and can admire it's adherence. Cosgrove has traveled the spectrum of hate. When Kenny Miller first arrived at Ibrox, he scored five goals in a seven zip victory over St Mirren. Cosgrove and Cowan had the Editor of Saints 'zine, 'theres a store where the creatures meet' on the show, he was there to promote their campaign of, 'Stop the Shop, Stop Bigotry'. Rangers were opening a club store in Paisley in the run up to Christmas. Cosgrove repeated the slogan continually, and offered t-shirts as prizes for listeners who penned the best message to be tied to a brick. It was left up to the listeners imagination as to how the brick was to be utilised. The Shop's windows in the next weeks were duly tanned and staff showered in glass. Stu' has left such naked hatred behind, he is more disciplined as yesterday's broadcast proves. He hates more carefully.

 

Meanwhile, we await the reaction of both the Lord Advocate and the Justice Minister? Don't expect anything, last year a ten year old Rangers supporter was bottled on a supporters bus traveling to the old firm semi-final. Frank and Michael said nothing, two months past, Police Scotland reported the investigation had stopped due to lack of evidence and assistance from the public. As victims, Rangers supporters are views as being awkward and inconvenient, and that's the reason for Big Stu's awkward and inconvenient performance yesterday.

Spot on 26th. Absolutely nailed it.

Listen to Cosgrove's defence of the indefensible here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07c68nv#play

I suppose having written about the dehumanisation of our support for the last 20 years yesterday’s events at Hampden should have come as no surprise to me. But they did, and then some. As our bus made its way back home from Hampden we listened to Stuart Cosgrove on the radio. It was something of a masterclass in defending the indefensible. I would urge every Rangers fan to listen to it on the BBC website – it will give you valuable insight into exactly what we are up against as a club and support.

Despite co-presenter Tam Cowan’s obvious disgust at what had just been witnessed at Hampden Cosgrove attempted to minimise every aspect of what had transpired, repeatedly telling both fellow presenters and listeners not to become “morally over reactive”. When Chic Young gave a live update confirming the disgraceful scenes Cosgrove went into whataboutery mode asking Young if he had invaded Wembley in 1977. It was pointed out to Cosgrove that those doing so back in 77 didn’t assault players or engage in violence. But to no avail.

We have now had “over exuberance” “celebrations” and this preposterous nonsense from Gerry Hassan:

“Seriously: can you tell if these are assaults? Or aggressive, stupid, OTT behaviour? Not good either way but diff.”

The aforementioned from Hassan was in response to ITN Reporter Peter Adam Smith on Twitter providing both eye witness testimony and mobile phone footage of the assaults on Rangers players.

Such scenes and testimony of course do not fit with a poisonous narrative which has been festering for far too many years now in Scotland – neither Rangers nor their supporters are allowed to be victims. While the world was rightly engaged in an outpouring of sympathy for the Hillsborough victims following the verdict of unlawful killing, Rangers staff were cleaning off graffiti from the stadium surrounds as the deaths of our 66 absent friends was mocked.

The invasion at the end of the match by Hibs fans caught no one by surprise - except for Police Scotland – its utterly farcical that this organisation claims to pride itself on “intelligence led Policing” Let’s be honest, having won the cup for the first time in 114 years who would deny the long suffering Hibs fans an element of over exuberance and a little dance on the hallowed turf? But over exuberance is not running the length of the pitch to the opposition fans end and challenging them to fight, as I witnessed. Nor is it assaulting players and staff from the opposition team.

Photographs, videos, neutral credible eye witness accounts and yet still it appears to take a standard of evidence over and above beyond reasonable doubt to convince some of what transpired yesterday. Can you imagine what the narrative would be today had such a record of events not been so readily available?

It would be a serious oversight to look at yesterday’s events in isolation as they were only a manifestation of the much wider problem of bigotry and hatred towards our club. How many of those committing criminal acts against Rangers players and staff were spurred on by a hatred of the “Klan”, “the underclass” or the “Huns” – terms used by journalists or presenters apparently with impunity. It was not only those on the pitch yesterday who should hang their heads in shame.

Having been the whipping boys for so long in Scottish football it seems we have now progressed to becoming the punchbag. What will be the next stage? Perhaps the columnists who continually urge Rangers fans to forgive, forget and move on would do well to address their remarks to others.

The powerful statement yesterday by the club shows that the narrative has to change.

Quite simply – Enough is enough

Thats a great article Frankie & probably a lot more tolerant than I will be in mine.

In a nutshell

I said he was an eejit and I stand by that. He also blocked me on Twitter, in fact he blocks anyone who questions or disagrees with him.

I still don't get why you mentioned him in the excellent original post.

People like him deserve to be exposed and subsequently shunned by everyone who harbours any sense of perspective or decency.

He's a first class prize plum. He rakes thousands in donations from gullible followers whilst sitting in his house in Bath, England being such a figurehead for independence followers. Couldn't make it up..Nice article D'art

Cheers BF.

I had a head to head with him on twitter several years ago - following one of my articles. At that time I had no knowledge of him & assuming he was a minister of the cloth I was polite and respectful towards him despite the fairy insidious nature of his comments regarding our club. I pointed out to him the precedents set by UEFA etc towards Fiorentina and Bohemians Prague but to no avail. He blocked me shortly thereafter.

I see his blog from January this year continues to peddle this new club nonsense, despite the various authoritive rulings, along with support for Haggerty and Spiers over the debacle which saw Spiers lose his job.

Mmm ok then.

 

For many of us the refusal of Wings Over Scotland, aka Rev. Stuart Campbell, to accept the truth or facts is nothing new. However his continued apportioning of blame for the Hillsborough disaster on Liverpool fans themselves – despite the ruling of the Hillsborough inquest jury only last week – marks a new low, even by his normally low standards.

And I stand by that.

In fact I remember someone in this thread actually referring to him as an "eejit"

Very good post, but why the need for the first paragraph mentioning that eejit ?

Simple BG - he is the only person I have heard, unconnected with the enquiry, who continues to blame the Liverpool fans - despite the Jury's inquest verdict.

For many of us the refusal of Wings Over Scotland, aka Rev. Stuart Campbell, to accept the truth or facts is nothing new. However his continued apportioning of blame for the Hillsborough disaster on Liverpool fans themselves – despite the ruling of the Hillsborough inquest jury only last week – marks a new low, even by his normally low standards.

It has taken 27 years of courageous fighting by the families of those who lost loved ones to establish those truths and facts. And it was a brutal fight where for most of it they were very much the underdog. They had to scale a mountain where every step of their climb was hindered by a Police Force lying as a collective, a press fabricating stories and politicians briefing against their loved ones.

But they never lost sight of their objective, never gave up in their quest for the truth, though tragically, some who started the journey never saw its completion.

It is almost impossible to imagine what those families and countless other families in Liverpool went through that fateful day of 15th April, 1989. But let me try as best as I can.

The 2nd January 1971 started off like any normal Saturday in our household. My parents, despite their judgement being hindered following the traditional Hogmanay celebrations, were sober enough of mind to steadfastly refuse my requests to accompany my elder brother and his best mate Chubb, to the Old Firm game. “Too Young” was the often repeated mantra. I suspect I was not the only 9 year old in Glasgow that day who concluded that “life was just not fair”.

Instead I was to be placated with a trip to the Hillhead Cinema (The Salon) to watch the blockbuster disaster movie Airport. In these days of live satellite broadcasts, mobile phones and social media it must be hard to imagine how slow and archaic communication was back in 1971. As the audience sat glued to the disaster plot unfolding on the screens they were totally oblivious to the disaster unfolding right on our doorstep. But a quiet whisper in the cinema quickly became a nervous chatter as rumours spread something had gone wrong at Ibrox and total strangers enquired of one another in the quest for more information. I will never forget the look of abject horror and desperation on my mother’s face.

We, like many others, left the cinema before the end of the film and I watched my father search frantically for a phone box. We stood huddled as a family unit in a small phone box, as my father, his hands visibly shaking, tried to get the coins into the phone. We were lucky, our loved ones returned home that day. For 66 families there was to be no such relief. One of them was the McGhee family who lived in the next street to us – their son David, aged 14 years, perished along with 65 others.

It left our whole community in mourning, God only knows how the people of Markinch in Fife, got through it.

For 25 minutes or so my parent’s lives were tuned inside out with uncertainty, panic and worry. And what they experienced that day was nothing to what those Liverpool families have had to undergo. Imagine having to endure 27 years to get that most precious of all things – the truth – and to have to battle every step of the way to get it.

The whole football community owes these Liverpool families a huge debt of thanks. The truth which they have uncovered speaks volumes about how football fans are viewed and treated by many. It was eloquently espoused by Rangers blogger JohnMc in his must read article for Gersnet:

http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/news-category/current-affairs/622-will-scottish-society-learn-from-the-hillsborough-disaster

Thankfully MSM, courtesy of Gordon Waddell at the Daily Record, have also picked up the mantle:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gordon-waddell-legacy-hillsborough-should-7868069#4tCVtxORTmMdrQ6M.97

Generations of football fans can testify to the almost sub-human levels of treatment. Rangers fans alighting from a train at Dundee in the 80’s will recall being “ordered” onto a bus by Police and being ferried directly to Tannadice. Refusal was not an option. And for those of us who made that journey, the enclosure at Tannadice provided ample of evidence of ticket sales revenue taking greater priority than crowd safety.

As John Mc so succinctly put it:

“After all, we were only football fans.”

Hillsborough and the courageous fight of the families for truth and justice has left a legacy which the normally tribal football community must unite as one to ensure is carried on. Football fans, whatever colours they wear, should not only expect but demand the same level of treatment as spectators at other sporting events.

If God is apportioning wings, then Liverpool seems an appropriate place to start.

BG I take it given the previous vote getting the 75% will be a formality ?

Agreed - and a sensible one at that.

 

I get people want Club1872 to be independent and we do have to be careful to avoid conflicts of interest. But, in this case, people over-reacted to some (albeit bad) wording about a figure they clearly dislike.

 

That's really sad but also unsurprising.

Im sorry Frankie but I dont think that is correct. You have guys like Bearger and RBR on here as well as others who have no ill feeling towards Chris Graham expressing concern over the wording. Had it been Greg Marshall instead of Chris Graham who was advertised as a "guest of the club" then Im certain the same concerns would have been aired.

Thats not to say some who harbour ill feeling did not try make the most of this error - but there was bona fide concern expressed by bears who harbour no malice or ill will.