The SPL without Rangers

[Super_Ally 0]

Correct. A lot of people seem well confused about their identity!!

 

I didn't/don't expect to get any support for my p.ov. there. But it's funny people only get up in arms about the British stuff when it's England/Ulster getting knocked.

 

People start getting tore into Scotland and it's fair game, even though Scotland is just as much a part of Britain these same people don't get so defensive over their British identity.

 

Many delight in slagging people who think of themselves as Scottish first, giving it all the check your passport chat and over similar jibes. Yet if they are so pro-union why do they not get offended by slurs and attacks on Scotland and why are they not more proud of our Scottish heritage.

 

Btw although this is a generalisation this is not an attack on everyone. If you are oenly pro-British and include all parts of the union in that, then clearly I do not refer to you.

[Union City Blue 0]

I didn't/don't expect to get any support for my p.ov. there. But it's funny people only get up in arms about the British stuff when it's England/Ulster getting knocked.

 

People start getting tore into Scotland and it's fair game, even though Scotland is just as much a part of Britain these same people don't get so defensive over their British identity.

 

Many delight in slagging people who think of themselves as Scottish first, giving it all the check your passport chat and over similar jibes. Yet if they are so pro-union why do they not get offended by slurs and attacks on Scotland and why are they not more proud of our Scottish heritage.

 

Btw although this is a generalisation this is not an attack on everyone. If you are oenly pro-British and include all parts of the union in that, then clearly I do not refer to you.

 

Indeed. Without getting into politics and all that, I just cannot understand why a lot of Scottish Rangers fans seem to revel in it when Scotland get beat. They say its because of the Tranny Army, but that doesn't do it for me. It's OUR country, not some sheep-shagger's. I wish for the old days when the big bulk of the crowd in the Rangers end at Hampden were actually Rangers fans and not many celtic fans were there. I grew up amongst that and it was fantastic to be supporting Scotland amongst fellow Bears. Quite inward-looking, I know, but that's how I grew up.

 

For the record I am openly pro-British and a strong Unionist as well as being proud to be Scottish. I also like England a lot but till can't really support them at football - that's down to sporting rivalry, nothing else.

 

This is a touchy subject, I know only too well!

[Super_Ally 0]

Fairly how I feel though without the experiences of being at Hampden.

[maineflyer 0]

I'm politically unionist and decidedly right wing, no doubt about it. But in sporting matters I'd rather gnaw my left thumb off than pull on an England shirt. Never could understand that shit amongst Rangers supporters who, when challenged, inevitably justify it on he basis that it is somehow "British". Fukk that for the proverbial game of sodjers. Three lions ain't in any shape or form British.

 

But it's becoming abundantly clear that my "Scotland" has less and less time for Rangers and our Scottish heritage may have an increasingly shaky foundation. The Oirish and socialist plagues that have infected our community for over 150 years have bred stupidity and weakness in almost every walk of life, including sporting bodies. In these circumstances I've changed my opinions dramatically and would now welcome complete disengagement from the Scottish footballing scene. The phrase "fukk 'em" comes to mind and seems ever more appropriate.

[Union City Blue 0]

I'm politically unionist and decidedly right wing, no doubt about it. But in sporting matters I'd rather gnaw my left thumb off than pull on an England shirt. Never could understand that shit amongst Rangers supporters who, when challenged, inevitably justify it on he basis that it is somehow "British". Fukk that for the proverbial game of sodjers. Three lions ain't in any shape or form British.

 

Exactly. England ain't Britain.

 

But it's becoming abundantly clear that my "Scotland" has less and less time for Rangers and our Scottish heritage may have an increasingly shaky foundation. The Oirish and socialist plagues that have infected our community for over 150 years have bred stupidity and weakness in almost every walk of life, including sporting bodies.

 

Very true. The fabric of our society has changed massively. 50, even 25 years ago, the way things are now would have been unimaginable.

 

In these circumstances I've changed my opinions dramatically and would now welcome complete disengagement from the Scottish footballing scene. The phrase "fukk 'em" comes to mind and seems ever more appropriate.

 

Disappointing. Very defeatist POV.

[Union City Blue 0]

Fairly how I feel though without the experiences of being at Hampden.

 

This is true mate.... I stood in the Rangers end at Hampden (Section J) towards the end of a midweek Scotland game when it must have been about 70% full. Maybe 1985, something like that.

 

People started firstly singing the Follow Follow and most - honestly most - people joined in. It was loud. Then it moved onto the Sash. Same again. It was quite bizarre and the only time I witnessed it, but I still remember it to this day because it said an awful lot.

 

I remember feeling slightly wary in case anything kicked-off, but it didn't and I didn't hear anybody complaining. Strength in numbers, and the Rangers boys were there alright. As I said maybe that's totally inappropriate, but that was genuinely the make-up of the Scotland support.

 

It makes me sad to see Rangers fans turn their back on Scotland these days.

[Super_Ally 0]

This is true mate.... I stood in the Rangers end at Hampden (Section J) towards the end of a midweek Scotland game when it must have been about 70% full. Maybe 1985, something like that.

 

People started firstly singing the Follow Follow and most - honestly most - people joined in. It was loud. Then it moved onto the Sash. Same again. It was quite bizarre and the only time I witnessed it, but I still remember it to this day because it said an awful lot.

 

I remember feeling slightly wary in case anything kicked-off, but it didn't and I didn't hear anybody complaining. Strength in numbers, and the Rangers boys were there alright. As I said maybe that's totally inappropriate, but that was genuinely the make-up of the Scotland support.

 

It makes me sad to see Rangers fans turn their back on Scotland these days.

 

I imagine we are best represented out of an individual club still. Still not how it was and a bit sad to see how it is.

[Bluedell 5,367]

Although we are part of the UK, in footballing terms we are just as seperated from England as France or Holland, and that is the point I was making.

 

I don't think we are.

 

Look at the fuss created just to put in an U23 team for the Olympics. All home nations FA's were having kittens at the thought of losing their identity, and were vehemently opposed to any team that could call into question their independance.

 

Are the SFA going to allow us just to leave our league to go to England on the argument that we are all British anyway? No chance of that, and popular opinion in this country would defend them all the way, as would the media who would be out of jobs if football could be covered nationally (UK) from London.

I'd largely agree with that, and it's obvious that the media have a vested interest. As such I also don't think it will happen as I said before, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't. When have the media or the SFA ever been right about anything? :devil:

 

I am suggesting we stop making excuses for our predicament, and start using the positives to run our club properly, represent our nation proudly in European competition, and be in a decent position if the Sky bubble bursts and all EPL clubs are bankrupt.

 

It's not a case of making excuses, it's aspiring to be be more than we currently are.

 

We can be a decent club on the European stage, as we have always been, from within our own domestic league, and we should be encouraging the other clubs to try to get to our level, rather than write them all off and try to leave for what is fashionable now, but may not always be such.

 

The rules are changing in Europe and our co-efficient is dropping. There could be further changes in the rules and we could find ourselves left even more behind than we are already.

 

And last but by no means least, to put our fans first, and ensure that we dont have regular 1000 mile round trips, some of which during the working week. It is us, the match-going fans, that should be considered more than anything else, as without us, there is not much left.

I disagree with that. Using that argument, we shouldn't be playing in Europe. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't try and qualify for the latter stages ensure that we dont have regular 3000 mile round trips, all of which during the working week?

 

If we joined the EPL next season, we would sell out our allocation most weeks. If we are limiting ourselves to playing in the SPL because limitations in our support then that is quite sad.

[Bluedell 5,367]

Although I didn't elaborate, this (and your post above, tannochsidebear) was the essence of the OP. In my head and my heart, I find this a difficult issue.

 

It's all about money - nothing else. We had (well, borrowed) lots of money before and where did it get us?

 

Change is inevitable, I understand that. But this needs a lot of thought and nobody's got round to describing what the end game is yet. I don't think anybody even knows.

 

As I said in the OP, the chat is about undefined competitions in unspecified lands playing against unidentified opponents with absolutely no regard for the game in Scotland. Erm, I think I need a lot more information than that.

 

Accepting that our current failures are simply down to not having as much money as clubs in England is laughable. Our club is not all it can be in its current situation, that must be pretty clear.

 

It's not all about money. It's about playing Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City, Aston Villa, Everton etc etc rather than playing Kilmarnock, Falkirk, Hamilton, Motherwell etc FOUR times a season.

 

The additional cash is a by-product, but for me, it's about the increased attraction and our club testing itself against the best possible opposition.

 

Our club is not all it can be, but there is still a limit as what it can be. Clubs with access to the EPL don't have that limit, and can aspire to bigger and better things. It just shows a lack of ambition not to want to test ourselves in a bigger and better league.

[Bluedell 5,367]

I don't want anything that could dissolve our Scottish identity. Too many try to hide it as it is under a banner of "britishness" but it is fairly obvious for a lot of fans that they don't give two shits about Britain.

 

Use FF as an example. When they get on their high horse over there because someone laughs at an ENgland defeat. But there are plenty who slag Scotland and none who are pro-Wales.

 

They may talk of Britain but they're only interested in England and Ulster. :devil:

 

Our Scottish identity doesn't need to damaged, and can even be enhanced by moving. Cardiff clearly still have their Welsh identity, and is a USP when it comes to playing in England.