The term Sectarian

[rbr 1,247]

Was having a wee discussion last night at work with a few fellow bears about the usual , state of the club , what the future holds etc etc , when one guy started on about how we as a support were worse than celtic ( this came when we were discussing the minute's silence disgrace at Falkirk ), when I asked him to explain what he meant he just said that in his opinion all our songs were worse than theirs , the billy boys , the add on's at the end of songs etc etc .

 

Now what I was wondering and I dont want a slagging match about his opinions were as that is pointless , has anyone else came across this type of opinion and what arguements did you put up to counter them .

 

We did debate it for a good couple of hours and in the end he did admit to a change of mind , however I couldn't fathom out his arguement initially ,it does seem to be that they are much more street wise and sly when it comes to this subject , ie the old " it's an old irish folk song " blah blah

 

looking forward to your thoughts

[Guest FalkirkBear]

has anyone else came across this type of opinion and what arguements did you put up to counter them .

 

Constantly.

 

Pretty much everytime someone asks what team I support. I don't even try to put up an arguement anymore, the common idea of what Rangers are about has been solidified over the last 50+years.

 

What makes it worse is that i am not protestant, I am not a unionist and as such I am probably the least likely to conform to what people see as a typical Rangers supporter..

[Tannochsidebear 2,316]

The fact that this is the generally held belief of non-OF fans is as a direct result of the drip-drip effect of countless negative stories against us in the press over the last couple of decades.

 

There are too many examples to mention specifically, but one that was pointed out to me at the last Gerspride conference by Professor Steve Bruce, who was written books on sectarianism, was the way a certain story was run by two different papers. The local paper ran the story of s few neds with celtic tops causing damage and setting fire to a CoS church. Police were appealing for witnesses etc, and set out descriptions of the neds, complete with celtic tops in the descriptions. The national paper (the record i think) ran the same story, but dropped all mentions of the neds being celtic fans in celtic tops, even dropping this from the descriptions in the police appeal.

 

This is a clear indication of the press "cleaning up" a negative celtic story. In the same paper it ran a story of a rangers fan in trouble for something else, and they managed to find a picture of said fan in his colours, and over-emphasised the story in far greater detail than the much worse church fire.

 

The Prof showed many mroe examples of this, and it was clear that this drip-drip effect will get into the heads of neutral readers and ensure they come up with the pre-determined notion that Rangers/Prods are the bad guys and that Celtic/Tims are the good guys.

 

This is why the club's policy of no comment on any anti-Rangers stories, and the fact we do not even have quiet stern words with regular offending journos and their editors, has resulted in open season on us, and will take years and years of reversal of policy to eradicate this bias.

[maineflyer 0]

Constantly.

 

Pretty much everytime someone asks what team I support. I don't even try to put up an arguement anymore, the common idea of what Rangers are about has been solidified over the last 50+years.

 

What makes it worse is that i am not protestant, I am not a unionist and as such I am probably the least likely to conform to what people see as a typical Rangers supporter..

 

Yes but you're still a sectarian racist, a pope hater, a disciminatory right wing protestant supremacist. You must be, you're a Rangers fan. Everyone knows that.

[Guest FalkirkBear]

The fact that this is the generally held belief of non-OF fans is as a direct result of the drip-drip effect of countless negative stories against us in the press over the last couple of decades.

 

There are too many examples to mention specifically, but one that was pointed out to me at the last Gerspride conference by Professor Steve Bruce, who was written books on sectarianism, was the way a certain story was run by two different papers. The local paper ran the story of s few neds with celtic tops causing damage and setting fire to a CoS church. Police were appealing for witnesses etc, and set out descriptions of the neds, complete with celtic tops in the descriptions. The national paper (the record i think) ran the same story, but dropped all mentions of the neds being celtic fans in celtic tops, even dropping this from the descriptions in the police appeal.

 

This is a clear indication of the press "cleaning up" a negative celtic story. In the same paper it ran a story of a rangers fan in trouble for something else, and they managed to find a picture of said fan in his colours, and over-emphasised the story in far greater detail than the much worse church fire.

 

The Prof showed many mroe examples of this, and it was clear that this drip-drip effect will get into the heads of neutral readers and ensure they come up with the pre-determined notion that Rangers/Prods are the bad guys and that Celtic/Tims are the good guys.

 

This is why the club's policy of no comment on any anti-Rangers stories, and the fact we do not even have quiet stern words with regular offending journos and their editors, has resulted in open season on us, and will take years and years of reversal of policy to eradicate this bias.

 

That is very true but the question we should be asking is "do we give the media the ammunition that they use against us"?

[Tannochsidebear 2,316]

The ammunition is there against any club's fans, it is only us that continually get it blown all over the press.

 

Every club of any decent size has a following from all walks of life, with lawyers, doctors, academics mingled with office workers, building site workers, shop assistants mingled with unemployed, criminals, and neds.

 

In our fanbase, we are not unique as a club to have some fans who want to cause trouble, both at the games, and when no football is on at all.

 

The point is there is a clearly defined media bias against Rangers supporters, driven by our enemies, and not defended by us or our club, so that we even get complete non-stories like eggs benedict and pepperami, the lotto winning thug always called "Rangers fan" and the continual drip-drip effect of negative press.

 

The press have as much access to stories that paint other clubs fans in a similarly bad light, but choose not to do so, or edit it in such a way to take out the sectarian element of timmy crimes.

 

That they choose not to portray other clubs in the same light is the real question.

[Super_Ally 0]

The fact that this is the generally held belief of non-OF fans is as a direct result of the drip-drip effect of countless negative stories against us in the press over the last couple of decades.

 

There are too many examples to mention specifically, but one that was pointed out to me at the last Gerspride conference by Professor Steve Bruce, who was written books on sectarianism, was the way a certain story was run by two different papers. The local paper ran the story of s few neds with celtic tops causing damage and setting fire to a CoS church. Police were appealing for witnesses etc, and set out descriptions of the neds, complete with celtic tops in the descriptions. The national paper (the record i think) ran the same story, but dropped all mentions of the neds being celtic fans in celtic tops, even dropping this from the descriptions in the police appeal.

 

This is a clear indication of the press "cleaning up" a negative celtic story. In the same paper it ran a story of a rangers fan in trouble for something else, and they managed to find a picture of said fan in his colours, and over-emphasised the story in far greater detail than the much worse church fire.

 

The Prof showed many mroe examples of this, and it was clear that this drip-drip effect will get into the heads of neutral readers and ensure they come up with the pre-determined notion that Rangers/Prods are the bad guys and that Celtic/Tims are the good guys.

 

This is why the club's policy of no comment on any anti-Rangers stories, and the fact we do not even have quiet stern words with regular offending journos and their editors, has resulted in open season on us, and will take years and years of reversal of policy to eradicate this bias.

 

Could he not have taken said story to a rival paper e.g. the Sun? Do they not love printing digs at each other and deliberately omiting details from a police report would not look to great for the record's credibility would it?

[biggordy 0]

If we do go down the road of "fan ownership", and I hope we do, I would hope this issue would be up there in order to rectify our public image.

On other sites I am continually defending us as apparently we are ALL "sectarian bigots" to every non Rangers fan.

Even the recent display at Falkirk did little to change matters. "It was only a few etc." was their cry.

The drip drip effect has definitely worked over the years and whenever I go against my fellow Bears and the things they might say on those sites, I am treated as some kind unique individual for not towing the party line by both sides. I am only trying to be truthful and no more.

I have reached the conclusion that all clubs have a type of supporter who either is unable or unwilling to handle facts and reality. No matter what unassailable facts are presented they will be ignored or even denied. These supporters will believe anything put before them from any source as long as it suits what they already stand for.

I like to think WE (or the vast majority of We) live in the real world while THEY see themselves as rebels ready to pounce on anything which the establishment might do, hence the term MOPE.

The media loves this as those "rebels" enjoy banging on and on and on about injustice. Jebus, they're still going on about Manchester FFS. It thrives on sensationalism as it strings stories out like a soap opera, having it's readership waiting for the next instalment. I think they used to be called Penny Dreadfuls back in the day.

 

As long as we always speak the truth and are honest we will always prevail.

Look at THEM, I think THEY are dishonest when they can get away with it, and with the Scottish press keeping us on the back foot, is about most of the time.

[Tannochsidebear 2,316]

Could he not have taken said story to a rival paper e.g. the Sun? Do they not love printing digs at each other and deliberately omiting details from a police report would not look to great for the record's credibility would it?

 

The story was found during his research if I remember correctly, and was from a couple of years before, but I agree playing the papers off against each other is an underused tool at our disposal, but for it to work, we need friendly editors on our side, and i'm not sure any editors of Scottish papers are on our side, or even remotely sympathetic.

[Super_Ally 0]

The story was found during his research if I remember correctly, and was from a couple of years before, but I agree playing the papers off against each other is an underused tool at our disposal, but for it to work, we need friendly editors on our side, and i'm not sure any editors of Scottish papers are on our side, or even remotely sympathetic.

 

I was wondering if I was making a daft suggestion, maybe there was something I was missing. So good to see some agreement with the idea. To me it looks like an obvious "solution". Or at the very least it will make the readerships of these papers consider the veracity of certain stories and whether the accepted views of the different clubs are justified.

 

Didn't realise the stories were old news by the time he found out. Opportunity missed. But I'm sure in the online forums these kind of contradictions and "errors" are highlighted, so lets use it to our advantage.