maineflyer 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 perhaps he doubts if the money consistently contributed by fans under a membership scheme would come anywhere near the figures being bandied about. I wonder what the reaction would be if Rangers incresed the season ticket price by �£100 - �£150 next season? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 perhaps he doubts if the money consistently contributed by fans under a membership scheme would come anywhere near the figures being bandied about. I wonder what the reaction would be if Rangers incresed the season ticket price by �£100 - �£150 next season? Good points & the other point in my mind is that none of the member scheme figures we've seen loosely talked about are taking into account exactly how much the 'small benefits on ticketing, merchandise and events' are going to deduct from the membership revenue. If you're talking about +40k members getting any decent level of financial benefits from it then you can probably knock a million quid off it straight away & that's no small sum when you're only talking about a few million in the first place. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,320 Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 perhaps he doubts if the money consistently contributed by fans under a membership scheme would come anywhere near the figures being bandied about. I wonder what the reaction would be if Rangers incresed the season ticket price by �£100 - �£150 next season? I would doubt that too MF. As fickle as we are, one or two bad years and membership numbers would drop. I dont think it would be an increase in ST prices, as this would exclude overseas bears from wanting to become members, I just used the figure loosely. At Barca, the memberships become due on 1 January. ST are in the summer, splitting the two payment dates. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,320 Posted December 7, 2009 Author Share Posted December 7, 2009 Good points & the other point in my mind is that none of the member scheme figures we've seen loosely talked about are taking into account exactly how much the 'small benefits on ticketing, merchandise and events' are going to deduct from the membership revenue. If you're talking about +40k members getting any decent level of financial benefits from it then you can probably knock a million quid off it straight away & that's no small sum when you're only talking about a few million in the first place. To my mind it would not be a decent level of financial benefits, more a token gesture of appreciation. Perhaps 5% off ticketing and merchandise. The actual cost of running the memberships, providing discounts, publishing a quarterly members mag, would probably be expected to run to somewhere between �£200-400K, depending on how many ST holders also take memberships. Of course, I have no way of knowing what is being discussed at either the RST or the Assembly regarding memberships, these are just my thoughts on the matter. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,183 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yeah, I found his comments more interesting and prudent rather than worrying. While most of us would like to see the club owned by the fans (whether wholly or in part), there is no room for sentiment in that regard. Without seeing any new owner's business plan or the ownership model therein, then I don't think any of us can comment whether it is workable or not. As such, I saw the chairman's comments as a warning for these people that the model must be water-tight to not only interest the club but the bank and the supporters as a whole. I'm glad that warning was made but I'd also like to think that Johnston is genuinely interested in what the fans have to offer. I'd also like to think the fans are genuinely interested in his feedback and one would ignore such a successful person's advice at their peril. In fact there's no reason why he shouldn't form part of any new executive board. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I would doubt that too MF. As fickle as we are, one or two bad years and membership numbers would drop. I dont think it would be an increase in ST prices, as this would exclude overseas bears from wanting to become members, I just used the figure loosely. At Barca, the memberships become due on 1 January. ST are in the summer, splitting the two payment dates. Hi TB. I just mentioned the ST price increase as a comparative test of people's willingness to part with real money. It's one thing to make positive noises about notional fan ownership but it's a little more real to consider a 25% hike in the ST that you already intent to buy in a few months. Anyway, it was just a thought. In reality I think the idea of 45,000 fans paying over more than �£100 on a regular, ongoing basis has probably got more to do with wishful thinking than financial planning. I think I drew that conclusion early on in recent events and believe that the role of supporters should be one of partial ownership, probably through preferential stock options, combined with a limited but crucial membership voting right on certain core issues - this latter as a means of constraining shareholder powers to alter key and fundamental arrangements without supporter approval. In reality, these may have to be quite limited but could include stadium sale, merchandising rights, debt limitation, and so on. A hell of a job to get agreement on these issues but those are the kind of checks and balances I had in mind to justify fan membership. In my opinion, and I'm not 100% settled on this, outright fan ownership is never going to be a reality in our world .... more's the pity .... and we could waste a load of energy pursuing it for no ultimate gain. That certain groups have leapt to back this as the primary goal shows either enormous deviousness or complete naivety. I've admired the insight and consistency shown by Zappa in this regard and I think some of his posts on fan ownership have hit the nail squarely on the head. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 fan ownership is all well and good as long as it is backed by a steady source of revenue , whether that is from TV , sponsorship or retail , unfortunately we have none of the later , again if I had been asked a few months ago I would and indeed have advocated fans owning the club but after reading and listening to more knowledgabe posters I can see this is a non starter , however there will be people still running with this for their own agenda , i a actually a bit depressed after yesterday as this process is going to take many many twists and turns 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 fan ownership is all well and good as long as it is backed by a steady source of revenue , whether that is from TV , sponsorship or retail , unfortunately we have none of the later , again if I had been asked a few months ago I would and indeed have advocated fans owning the club but after reading and listening to more knowledgabe posters I can see this is a non starter , however there will be people still running with this for their own agenda , i a actually a bit depressed after yesterday as this process is going to take many many twists and turns It's just that the hole we're in is a very big hole and all sorts of people are shovelling shit into it...... Murray, Lloyds, prospective buyers, fans organisations, the media almost en masse, certain political parties, catholic/republican activists who hate our existence ......... that's a lot of shit to wade through, so there's plenty of cause to feel depressed. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbr 1,247 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's just that the hole we're in is a very big hole and all sorts of people are shovelling shit into it...... Murray, Lloyds, prospective buyers, fans organisations, the media almost en masse, certain political parties, catholic/republican activists who hate our existence ......... that's a lot of shit to wade through, so there's plenty of cause to feel depressed. I think that is what is really getting me down , after all this time and debate , newspapers involved etc etc , we would have had some sort of concrete info about our situation but we still only cling onto speculation , even after yesterday nothing worth while came from it , ahhhh god bless red wine 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I think that is what is really getting me down , after all this time and debate , newspapers involved etc etc , we would have had some sort of concrete info about our situation but we still only cling onto speculation , even after yesterday nothing worth while came from it , ahhhh god bless red wine Maybe part of the problem is that when people start describing "the only show in town" you start to believe there might actually be a show in town. I think it's dawning on me that all we had was the RST booking the hall in case a show might happen to drop by. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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