amms 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 i agree with just about everything you say there. you say it very well too. on the bold bit though, can you show some facts and figures to back that up? after the complete doing our club has had over the last decade by just about everyone from with the game and outside the game, i am struggling to believe we are the most popular and after losing several players to celtic over the last 5 years and financially being so inferior to them, i would like to see concrete evidence that we are indeed "bigger". Thanks. To clarify 'biggest and most popular' I'd point at current TV viewing figures and indeed attendance figures for the season so far, I read some on this site this morning which showed our 3rd division matches attracting average audiences in excess of any SPL clubs. I accept that Celtic are currently wealthier than us and that could be used as a guide for 'biggest' I suppose but I meant in terms of support and interest in Scotland. I can only think of one player we've lost to Celtic and he was still only a youth and a Celtic supporter. If you mean guys like Commons then that's a straight fight on money, being willing to pay more isn't a reliable guide on size or popularity in football. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I'd say the attendance figures for this year show we're the best supported team in the country. Whether that makes us the biggest or most popular is debatable - both terms could be interpretted in a number of ways. their match day tickets are much more expensive though and their season ticket price actually went up from last year. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Thanks. To clarify 'biggest and most popular' I'd point at current TV viewing figures and indeed attendance figures for the season so far, I read some on this site this morning which showed our 3rd division matches attracting average audiences in excess of any SPL clubs. I accept that Celtic are currently wealthier than us and that could be used as a guide for 'biggest' I suppose but I meant in terms of support and interest in Scotland. I can only think of one player we've lost to Celtic and he was still only a youth and a Celtic supporter. If you mean guys like Commons then that's a straight fight on money, being willing to pay more isn't a reliable guide on size or popularity in football. viewing figures could be interpreted many ways though, i cant see rangers fans sitting through spl matches the same way non rangers fans seem so obsessed with our club that they will tune in in the hope we lose or maybe other football fans just out of interest, this footballing giant in the bottom tier. attendance figures i agree but i think ticket prices have a part to play maybe. yeah i meant commons, brown, riordan, loovens, mcgeough, broziek, izaguirre and maybe one or two others. are the bold bits not slight contradictions? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54andcounting 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Delighted about the Jig contract, he deserves it...hope he wasn't simply working his ass off for it though. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
amms 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 viewing figures could be interpreted many ways though, i cant see rangers fans sitting through spl matches the same way non rangers fans seem so obsessed with our club that they will tune in in the hope we lose or maybe other football fans just out of interest, this footballing giant in the bottom tier. attendance figures i agree but i think ticket prices have a part to play maybe. yeah i meant commons, brown, riordan, loovens, mcgeough, broziek, izaguirre and maybe one or two others. are the bold bits not slight contradictions? There are lots of factors that affect TV viewing figures and match attendance figures, you are right to point that out. I can't prove it but I don't think Celtic reducing the price of tickets for their SPL matches will make much of a difference to their attendances. We currently have a support that is better engaged and willing to turn up in greater numbers for whatever reasons. Price is a factor but it's hardly cheap to go to Ibrox. Quality of opposition is a factor too though, a big one, it's hard to argue they've played better clubs both in terms of ability and also in size of support than we have this season, yet we're still drawing bigger crowds. To be honest I've never heard anyone challenge the idea that Rangers are a 'bigger' club before, even the Tims I know seem willing to accept that. Perhaps you are right, maybe they are bigger than us now. Do you think that's the case? It is difficult to gauge just who is watching the TV games, but it seems fair to say our games are the most attractive to an audience, I can't prove if that audience is supporting us or not though. I don't think I contradicted myself, money isn't always an indicator of the size of club. Man City and Chelsea can pay more than just about every other club in the world but I wouldn't say either are bigger than us, even in their own league Liverpool and Man Utd are both bigger clubs than them. Celtic paying higher salaries than Rangers for the last few years simply demonstrates they've been better run. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 (edited) There are lots of factors that affect TV viewing figures and match attendance figures, you are right to point that out. I can't prove it but I don't think Celtic reducing the price of tickets for their SPL matches will make much of a difference to their attendances. We currently have a support that is better engaged and willing to turn up in greater numbers for whatever reasons. Price is a factor but it's hardly cheap to go to Ibrox. Quality of opposition is a factor too though, a big one, it's hard to argue they've played better clubs both in terms of ability and also in size of support than we have this season, yet we're still drawing bigger crowds. To be honest I've never heard anyone challenge the idea that Rangers are a 'bigger' club before, even the Tims I know seem willing to accept that. Perhaps you are right, maybe they are bigger than us now. Do you think that's the case? It is difficult to gauge just who is watching the TV games, but it seems fair to say our games are the most attractive to an audience, I can't prove if that audience is supporting us or not though. I don't think I contradicted myself, money isn't always an indicator of the size of club. Man City and Chelsea can pay more than just about every other club in the world but I wouldn't say either are bigger than us, even in their own league Liverpool and Man Utd are both bigger clubs than them. Celtic paying higher salaries than Rangers for the last few years simply demonstrates they've been better run. defiance? i think its pretty easy tbh, teams like killie, st johnstone, aberdeen and the like are much bigger and better in every sense than the likes of stirling albion and annan athletic. i might have read that wrong and that is maybe what you meant? the fact we are playing much weaker and mediocre opposition is a tremendous reflection on our support. celtic are playing the bigger teams in scottish terms yet cannot get the crowds we can. real radio used to do it every second week on their phone in show. radio clyde refused to entertain the debate for whatever reason. i dont know any tims who think we are bigger than them. to answer your question, bigger business, bigger stadium(higher average attendances over course of last decade), more scope for revenue, higher valued players, more internationals, possibly a bigger attraction brand wise worldwide, then there is their political power within the game and scotland. they seem to have friends in places we could only dream of. tbh i find it hard to argue that we are the bigger club. the one thing we do have over them is onfield success and this is exactly what the tims in authority are trying to take off us, oh and our dignity!! i dont think we will ever be able to financially compete with them until we expand our ground. for me that is the one thing holding us back against them. if mr green wants to leave a legacy, give us the biggest stadium in the country. put celtic firmly in their place. behind us! i have to agree about the tv bit mate, you are spot on. they have certainly been better run, that is true, average crowds of 58000 since they built the meccano dome up until the last few years helped them out no end too. i didnt notice their crowds going down until late into chesneys reign. all in all, i think we have so much hard work to do to get back to the top just in scotland. Edited October 31, 2012 by kuznetsov 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Congratulations to Jig! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Ally 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 viewing figures could be interpreted many ways though, i cant see rangers fans sitting through spl matches the same way non rangers fans seem so obsessed with our club that they will tune in in the hope we lose or maybe other football fans just out of interest, this footballing giant in the bottom tier. attendance figures i agree but i think ticket prices have a part to play maybe. yeah i meant commons, brown, riordan, loovens, mcgeough, broziek, izaguirre and maybe one or two others. are the bold bits not slight contradictions? Were we ever honestly in for Loovens? We signed Boogie instead didn't we? Just paper speculation that one that I dunno that is even true. Izaguirre is news to me. Were we in for Riordan when he went there? Seems like you're going to great lengths and distorting the truth or buying into fabrications elsewhere, to push Celtic's agenda. Only 14,000 last night is a good indicator that they're not the biggest! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuznetsov 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Were we ever honestly in for Loovens? We signed Boogie instead didn't we? Just paper speculation that one that I dunno that is even true. Izaguirre is news to me. Were we in for Riordan when he went there? Seems like you're going to great lengths and distorting the truth or buying into fabrications elsewhere, to push Celtic's agenda. Only 14,000 last night is a good indicator that they're not the biggest! apparently we were, yes. yes, i think we got the btter deal there too. izaguirre flew to scotland to sign for rangers and before he landed he was on his way to celtic. that was a dirty one by them. riordan knocked us back before he signed for celtic. what great lengths, fabrications and distortions? :-/ you are basing how big a club are from a one off micky mouse cup tie? :-/ 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 micky mouse cup tie I'll remember you said that if we don't win tonight. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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