Sir Ally?

[reaper 0]

I could not disagree more. He is not some sort of Messiah. He is an individual forced into a managers position and given a great chance to win the hearts of the gullable. And i have already said, i didn't need one individual, i was not weak minded, i had faith, faith that my club would of course survive.Perhaps had we appointed a more appropriate manager post Walter we may not have suffered such horrendous outcomes in 2012?

 

I am not confusing his position as manager and figurehead, or mouthpiece as some call it. Any good work he did do in front of a mic in 2012 was completely nulled by his performance in the job he is actually paid to do. One thing i do agree on is Ally being one of the clubs all time greats, of course he is and always will be. The man is a club legend, a hero to thousands. my hero growing up.

 

Don't assume, it's dangerous. I told you i disagreed with you and did not need any one individual as any sort of figurehead. It's that simple. I had trust in my club.

 

The simple equation was support the club or don't whoever was a figurehead, most fiscally prudent know without resorting to fairy tales that Green was the crucible of our salvation, McCoist had two choices advise support or not the second option may have killed us stone dead, a no brainer.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

The simple equation was support the club or don't whoever was a figurehead, most fiscally prudent know without resorting to fairy tales that Green was the crucible of our salvation, McCoist had two choices advise support or not the second option may have killed us stone dead, a no brainer.

 

When you say "support the club" who or what were you supporting? You had no idea whether Green was another con-man and crook like Whyte - none of us did. If he had turned out to be another crook and if you had blindly supported him and driven the club into extinction by doing so, how is that "supporting the club"?

 

As it turned out Green was given the support of the fan base - thanks in no small part to McCoist - and was then able to bring a degree of stability to the club and get us back onto the park again. If it hadn't been for AM it is extremely doubtful whether Green would have got enough support to allow him to continue as Chairman.

Whether Ally's support was the right thing to have done is something for historians to decide - but the fact is that McCoist was 'our' man and the only one we could trust and he made the decision to give his backing to Green.

 

As for AM's decision being a 'no-brainer, If McCoist had come out and told the fans not to buy season tickets, Charles Green would have had to consider whether it was worth trying to flog a dead horse or whether he would be better off selling RFC to someone else for a tidy wee profit.

[reaper 0]

When you say "support the club" who or what were you supporting? You had no idea whether Green was another con-man and crook like Whyte - none of us did. If he had turned out to be another crook and if you had blindly supported him and driven the club into extinction by doing so, how is that "supporting the club"?

 

As it turned out Green was given the support of the fan base - thanks in no small part to McCoist - and was then able to bring a degree of stability to the club and get us back onto the park again. If it hadn't been for AM it is extremely doubtful whether Green would have got enough support to allow him to continue as Chairman.

Whether Ally's support was the right thing to have done is something for historians to decide - but the fact is that McCoist was 'our' man and the only one we could trust and he made the decision to give his backing to Green.

 

As for AM's decision being a 'no-brainer, If McCoist had come out and told the fans not to buy season tickets, Charles Green would have had to consider whether it was worth trying to flog a dead horse or whether he would be better off selling RFC to someone else for a tidy wee profit.

 

I have no difficulty in differentiating between the club and individuals, apparently you do.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

I have no difficulty in differentiating between the club and individuals, apparently you do.

 

in which case, you'll have no difficulty answering the question I put to you:

"When you say "support the club" who or what were you supporting? "

[reaper 0]

in which case, you'll have no difficulty answering the question I put to you:

"When you say "support the club" who or what were you supporting? "

You are obviously unaware that the club is a living entity as encompassed by our unbroken history/longevity, I can't be held accountable for your inability to accept support for the club over your preferred individual, no one is bigger than the club it is that simple.

[calscot 0]

You are obviously unaware that the club is a living entity as encompassed by our unbroken history/longevity, I can't be held accountable for your inability to accept support for the club over your preferred individual, no one is bigger than the club it is that simple.

 

I don't get you, you seem to be arguing against yourself and not saying much relevant to the other argument.

 

On the one hand you say you know the difference between the club and the individual but on the other don't seem to see the difference between the club and the owners. It seems you'll happily give your money to the owners no matter what they intend to do with it, as long as they own Rangers.

 

You'd be happy to give your money to a charlatan like Whyte to put in his pocket under the guise of investing in Rangers.

 

What Ally provided was what we see as a more trustworthy inside view of the credibility of those buying the club. It's a bit like coming across an unknown website for something expensive you want to buy and worrying about whether to give your payment details. You are then put at rest with someone you trust who has checked out the company and vouches for it. Here the unknown website is the new board of directors.

 

I don't think that is even slightly mistaking an individual for the club any more than the above is mistaking the trusted person for the thing you want to buy.

[Super Cooper 0]

You are obviously unaware that the club is a living entity as encompassed by our unbroken history/longevity, I can't be held accountable for your inability to accept support for the club over your preferred individual, no one is bigger than the club it is that simple.

 

Correct, it is a ridiculous question.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

You are obviously unaware that the club is a living entity as encompassed by our unbroken history/longevity, I can't be held accountable for your inability to accept support for the club over your preferred individual, no one is bigger than the club it is that simple.

 

Your three statements are erroneous, fallacious and irrelevant in that order - and rather than defending your position with reasoned argument, as I have done in my defense of McCoist, you simply ascribe invented viewpoints to me.

 

You've stated that you can differentiate between the club and individuals. You've stated that you were supporting 'the club' regardless of who was in charge. I'll ask again; who or what was it you were supporting and how did that support manifest itself?

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Correct, it is a ridiculous question.

 

That's one way of avoiding answering it.

[Super Cooper 0]

One of the surest signs that somebody has no argument is when they resort to extreme terminology and use straw men.

 

Nobody has claimed AM was a 'messiah'. What he was, however, was a leader at a time when the fans and the club desperately needed one.

 

AM wasn't "forced" into the manager's position. He chose to stay in the position he was in and he did so with no pay. Why did he do that? Because he knew that if he walked away there would not have been one single person the fans could have trusted and the club would have been in a potentially fatal position.

 

"Gullible" describes people who, yet again, are willing to throw their money without thinking at whichever charlatan or crook happens to be chairman without stopping for once to demand answers - even after the club has been brought to the edge of oblivion by that very sort of mindless behaviour.

 

In fact, no, strike that; that's not gullible behaviour, that's bordering on criminally negligent.

 

We had been run by a fool, whose mismanagement put the club in mortal danger. No questions asked.

We were taken over by a criminal, whose recklessness almost killed us. No questions asked.

We were sold to a consortium of fly-by-nights and shady characters and yet some people were still willing to follow along blindly, believing whatever these carpetbaggers told you, no questions asked?

 

Thankfully the great bulk of the support weren't as blind and we demanded assurance that this latest bunch of chancers weren't going to kill the club off completely this time - and the only person we could trust to do that was McCoist.

 

 

 

You had trust in your 'club'? Really? What exactly and who exactly did you have trust in?

I'm really keen to know what and who it was that you trusted so much, because nobody I knew or heard or read had any trust in anybody or anything at that time - except Ally McCoist.

 

 

 

 

 

Ahem!

 

What is straw men?

 

You are talking like he is, like is he some sort of superhero. He is here by default, his pal got him the job and he has chosen to hang around.

 

When i say forced i obviously mean he could not turn it down. Walter and Murray made a huge mistake passing the job onto him. What makes it worse is both those men knew our financial state at that time. Constant downsizing, ever demanding support, a desperate need annual for European football, yet they lumbered Ally with all that came with such a difficult job.

 

All very well talking about gullible now after 20 years of David Murrays lies and a decade of mistakes.

 

If fans had not followed along blindly then no matter what Ally McCoist said in front of a mic we would not have a club to support. Tremendous credit must go to our fans for getting behind our club in such huge numbers despite the obvious problems in the dug out and boardroom. Fans proving the club is greater than them all.

 

You do not speak for the great bulk of the support so do not pretend you do. You are coming across like Suck, yeah, i know you have heard of him.

 

The club itself. That is all i needed, Rangers to be operating, open for business and i am there. With or without Ally McCoist, Walter Smith, Charlie Green or whoever. It's funny you should say that about people you know because not one single person i knew had faith or trust in McCoist yet we still followed Rangers and still supported Rangers.

 

I give you that one but my statement still stands, my assumption was every bit as dangerous as yours was.