Sir Ally?

[Super Cooper 0]

Your three statements are erroneous, fallacious and irrelevant in that order - and rather than defending your position with reasoned argument, as I have done in my defense of McCoist, you simply ascribe invented viewpoints to me.

 

You've stated that you can differentiate between the club and individuals. You've stated that you were supporting 'the club' regardless of who was in charge. I'll ask again; who or what was it you were supporting and how did that support manifest itself?

 

Imagine coming onto a fans forum with language like that giving it the big i am. Stop acting so arrogant and treat people the way you wish to be treated. The lad said, as did i, we support the club, there is your answer. The club. Now leave it out, the trolling is most unnecessary.

[reaper 0]

Your three statements are erroneous, fallacious and irrelevant in that order - and rather than defending your position with reasoned argument, as I have done in my defense of McCoist, you simply ascribe invented viewpoints to me.

 

You've stated that you can differentiate between the club and individuals. You've stated that you were supporting 'the club' regardless of who was in charge. I'll ask again; who or what was it you were supporting and how did that support manifest itself?

 

Best leave you to your own world, if you don't like the answer tough shit that is if you are able to understand it.

[amms 0]

Best leave you to your own world, if you don't like the answer tough shit that is if you are able to understand it.

 

But you haven't answered his question, no one can understand it because you've not yet supplied an answer.

[amms 0]

Imagine coming onto a fans forum with language like that giving it the big i am. Stop acting so arrogant and treat people the way you wish to be treated. The lad said, as did i, we support the club, there is your answer. The club. Now leave it out, the trolling is most unnecessary.

 

What is 'the club'? Can you define it, what does it consist of? I'm not picking a fight I'm genuinely curious what you mean by 'the club'.

[Super Cooper 0]

What is 'the club'? Can you define it, what does it consist of? I'm not picking a fight I'm genuinely curious what you mean by 'the club'.

 

The name Rangers Football Club, Ibrox Stadium, Auchenhowie, millions of fans worldwide, almost a century and a half of glorious history, a standard and tradition which may not be there now, but which i have grown up with etc etc. Things that no one individual can take from us or give us that make us who we are. It's a collective success and growth which is ever present and constant(material aspects apart). That is what i buy into, not some individual spouting his mouth off about things he has no clue about with respect to Super Ally, he is and has been out of his depth for the last few years. I don't go to games because he is manager or has had a nice piece of verbal in the press, i go to games because i love my club and i support my club no matter the individuals within.

[reaper 0]

The name Rangers Football Club, Ibrox Stadium, Auchenhowie, millions of fans worldwide, almost a century and a half of glorious history, a standard and tradition which may not be there now, but which i have grown up with etc etc. Things that no one individual can take from us or give us that make us who we are. It's a collective success and growth which is ever present and constant(material aspects apart). That is what i buy into, not some individual spouting his mouth off about things he has no clue about with respect to Super Ally, he is and has been out of his depth for the last few years. I don't go to games because he is manager or has had a nice piece of verbal in the press, i go to games because i love my club and i support my club no matter the individuals within.

 

Maybe he didn't know what or whom Bill Struth referred to in his famous quote about The Rangers.

[amms 0]

The name Rangers Football Club, Ibrox Stadium, Auchenhowie, millions of fans worldwide, almost a century and a half of glorious history, a standard and tradition which may not be there now, but which i have grown up with etc etc. Things that no one individual can take from us or give us that make us who we are. It's a collective success and growth which is ever present and constant(material aspects apart). That is what i buy into, not some individual spouting his mouth off about things he has no clue about with respect to Super Ally, he is and has been out of his depth for the last few years. I don't go to games because he is manager or has had a nice piece of verbal in the press, i go to games because i love my club and i support my club no matter the individuals within.

 

Thanks.

 

You must be abe to understand why some, and I include myself in this, were very unsure about 'the club' last summer. The need for continuance, to see the connection to the past was essential and for many Ally McCoist was the only sign of it.

Most of the players had gone, the board had gone, we'd failed to get a CVA and the 'newco' was an unfamiliar concept to most of us and the utter disbelief and disappointment that this had happened to us was causing a trauma throughout many in the support. Green was an unknown quantity, many were rightly suspicious of him, he'd no currency with us.

 

Throughout it McCoist was the the recognisable voice, the familiar face and for many, rightly or wrongly, the only person they trusted. You could argue that without McCoist 'the club' might have been stillborn last summer, without his support Green would have struggled to sell season tickets or indeed field a side.

Whilst 'the club' is all the things you said it is a number of individuals have contributed much, much more to it than most others have. Ally McCoist deserves to have his name spoken in the same way as our founders or Mr Struth now. His contribution to the club both on and off the field is now difficult to measure.

 

I remember a long time ago on Rangersmedia debating who was the greatest ever Ranger with Manticore. He, rightly, said Struth, but if you compare what they both achieved by age (ie Struth's record when he was the age McCoist is now) then McCoist is a serious contendor for that title.

I don't think anyone thinks McCoist is capable of emulating Struth as a manager, I doubt even McCoist thinks that. But that should never detract from what he has and continues to contribute to the club.

No one is bigger than the club, but without some individuals the club would be a lot smaller than it is, one of those individuals is Ally McCoist.

[Super Cooper 0]

Thanks.

 

You must be abe to understand why some, and I include myself in this, were very unsure about 'the club' last summer. The need for continuance, to see the connection to the past was essential and for many Ally McCoist was the only sign of it.

Most of the players had gone, the board had gone, we'd failed to get a CVA and the 'newco' was an unfamiliar concept to most of us and the utter disbelief and disappointment that this had happened to us was causing a trauma throughout many in the support. Green was an unknown quantity, many were rightly suspicious of him, he'd no currency with us.

 

Throughout it McCoist was the the recognisable voice, the familiar face and for many, rightly or wrongly, the only person they trusted. You could argue that without McCoist 'the club' might have been stillborn last summer, without his support Green would have struggled to sell season tickets or indeed field a side.

Whilst 'the club' is all the things you said it is a number of individuals have contributed much, much more to it than most others have. Ally McCoist deserves to have his name spoken in the same way as our founders or Mr Struth now. His contribution to the club both on and off the field is now difficult to measure.

 

I remember a long time ago on Rangersmedia debating who was the greatest ever Ranger with Manticore. He, rightly, said Struth, but if you compare what they both achieved by age (ie Struth's record when he was the age McCoist is now) then McCoist is a serious contendor for that title.

I don't think anyone thinks McCoist is capable of emulating Struth as a manager, I doubt even McCoist thinks that. But that should never detract from what he has and continues to contribute to the club.

No one is bigger than the club, but without some individuals the club would be a lot smaller than it is, one of those individuals is Ally McCoist.

 

That's a good reply and one i both appreciate and just about agree 100% with.

 

Cheers amms.

[calscot 0]

What is straw men?

 

It's a type of fallacy - an argument that is not really valid used to try to win a debate. This one describes an argument where instead of answering the previous point, you change it to something similar sounding but easy to dismiss - the most common being an exaggeration.

 

The name comes from an imaginary situation where instead of attacking a real man, you make a replica of him in straw and easily defeat that.

 

One example in your case is that while your "opponent" was arguing that McCoist played an important part in the resurgence of the club, you turned that into him saying he was a messiah and bigger than the club, which is easy to refute but not actually the argument given.

[Super Cooper 0]

It's a type of fallacy - an argument that is not really valid used to try to win a debate. This one describes an argument where instead of answering the previous point, you change it to something similar sounding but easy to dismiss - the most common being an exaggeration.

 

The name comes from an imaginary situation where instead of attacking a real man, you make a replica of him in straw and easily defeat that.

 

One example in your case is that while your "opponent" was arguing that McCoist played an important part in the resurgence of the club, you turned that into him saying he was a messiah and bigger than the club, which is easy to refute but not actually the argument given.

 

Ah, cool. Thanks for that.

 

I thought he was arguing that we needed McCoist as a leader and fans only started supporting the club again, financially anyway, because of McCoist. No one can deny Ally played an important part, if my "opponents" argument was that simple i would simply have agreed with him, i read more into than just that though.

 

I didn't turn it into that, that is how i read the replies to me. Ally being built up to be some sort of Super Hero Messiah type person. Of course i apologise if i am wide of the mark.