gersnet article (image) Winners or Losers?

[CammyF 6,781]

I don't get this forget about last season nonsense. If we continued to apply all the good attributes from last season, we'd have won the league again. Not by 20+ points, but we'd have won it. 

 

Celtic came to Ibrox earlier in the season riding a wave of optimism and new found belief, we were told they'd destroy us, even some in here were predicting new untold levels of defeat. Then to make matters worse, we got ravaged by Covid. 

 

The predictions were for an easy Celtic victory, a return to the days of Murty and Pedro. The reality? We found a way to nullify them and to win the game. 

 

Some of us cheered the day SG left, but we are now feeling the effect of losing coaches like Beale and especially Culshaw. In countless interviews SG and the players would was lyrically regarding his input for defending and attacking set-pieces. We didn't lose goals from set-pieces, and we scored many from attacking set-pieces. Now it's reversed. 

 

GVB is a decent coach, his time in Holland showed this but his style (whatever it is) is eirher not suited for Scottish Football, or it's getting lost in translation somewhere.

 

Watching the game last night our every weakness was identified and exploited. Gone was the Rangers who firstly found a way to beat Celtic regularly then found a way to destroy and embarrass them. Now this is reversed. 

 

Their players look hungry, fit, agile, well coached, know their positions and know their jobs. Our players are the exact opposite. Some thing else that has been reversed. 

 

The next two games are critical for GVB and Rangers. Any more dropped points and the league and possibly GVBs tenure will be hanging by a thread. 

[Bill 13,717]

54 minutes ago, CammyF said:

I don't get this forget about last season nonsense. If we continued to apply all the good attributes from last season, we'd have won the league again. Not by 20+ points, but we'd have won it. 

 

Celtic came to Ibrox earlier in the season riding a wave of optimism and new found belief, we were told they'd destroy us, even some in here were predicting new untold levels of defeat. Then to make matters worse, we got ravaged by Covid. 

 

The predictions were for an easy Celtic victory, a return to the days of Murty and Pedro. The reality? We found a way to nullify them and to win the game. 

 

Some of us cheered the day SG left, but we are now feeling the effect of losing coaches like Beale and especially Culshaw. In countless interviews SG and the players would was lyrically regarding his input for defending and attacking set-pieces. We didn't lose goals from set-pieces, and we scored many from attacking set-pieces. Now it's reversed. 

 

GVB is a decent coach, his time in Holland showed this but his style (whatever it is) is eirher not suited for Scottish Football, or it's getting lost in translation somewhere.

 

Watching the game last night our every weakness was identified and exploited. Gone was the Rangers who firstly found a way to beat Celtic regularly then found a way to destroy and embarrass them. Now this is reversed. 

 

Their players look hungry, fit, agile, well coached, know their positions and know their jobs. Our players are the exact opposite. Some thing else that has been reversed. 

 

The next two games are critical for GVB and Rangers. Any more dropped points and the league and possibly GVBs tenure will be hanging by a thread. 

There is no way in this world that GvB will lose his job this season or next. That just won't happen. If he fails to win the league this year then he will be given a season to respond and rightly so.

 

There's a world of difference between acknowledging inexperience in a new setting and the dangers involved if things continue to slide ... and (effectively) hanging a new manager out to dry after a couple of months in the job. We should be careful not to confuse a problem with a tragedy and leave some room for this to be where GvB earns his spurs. Postecoglou has had the advantage of essentially building a new team whereas GvB is trying to resurrect a team that's in parts well beyond its sellby date.

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, CammyF said:

Celtic came to Ibrox earlier in the season riding a wave of optimism and new found belief, we were told they'd destroy us, even some in here were predicting new untold levels of defeat. Then to make matters worse, we got ravaged by Covid. 

If last night taught us one thing it's that this is not the Celtic of last August. They've been building and improving while we (at best) have stood still.

[Ted McMinnime 341]

4 hours ago, Bill said:

Some further reflections on the game yesterday.

 

It seems to me that something quite fundamental needs to change and change quickly if we still want to be in this title race a month from now. It relates to player attitudes but it's perhaps most easily seen in the attitudes we see routinely expressed by the support. 

 

As the season started in 2020, we were prepared for failure. Very much hoping for success but cautioned against excess optimism by the outcomes of the two previous compaigns. In the end and despite miserable cup exits, I don't think many of us could believe the extent of our success, winning the title by a mile and beating Celtic every time we faced them. It was like every dream come true and we were "back".

 

What a contrast this season. Suddenly all caution is abandoned and we're wallowing in a new entitlement. Naturally we're going to win the league again. Celtic are shite and their weird manager is a joke. Even when we lose our transformational manager in still-unexplained circumstances, within week we're patting each other on the back, sure in our sense of destiny that we've turned a possible booby trap into a new and better launchpad. 

 

Well Celtic are not "shite", they're currently better than us in every way that matters - more skilful, more determined, more hardworking, more united. Their manager isn't a joke at all. In a few short months he's assembled a new team, got them winning, turned a basket case into league leaders and (whisper it) title favourites. Meanwhile, we're in total denial about what's happening across the city and still smugly asserting our superiority ... until last night when the lights all came on at once. If you still don't get it then you're still asleep. 

 

Yesterday was a wake up call that said we're in a fight that we're no longer favourites to win. While Celtic have been working hard to win 'their' title back, we haven't even realised we're in a fight at all. If we don't urgently lose that misconception and appreciate the challenge that's been thrown down then we have absolutely no chance of defending our title.

 

I say "we" but of course I'm using the attitude of the support (that we all know is wrong and may of us have shared) as an analog for what I believe is replicated in the dressing room and lies at the heart of what happened yesterday. Just look at Barisic and Tavernier and tell me they haven't lost the path. Footballers are not renowned for their introspection and self-examination, they feed off the atmosphere created by the support and I think we've all somewhat lost the plot. Right now, on both sides of the white lines, we need men of determination and motivation. Goldson was right after all and last night Jack's excellent performance provided the contrast needed to show how far most of the team have fallen.

 

I no longer think we can turn this around without significant changes on the field. The past counts for nothing. I'd rather lose this title fighting and end the season knowing who's up for the fight, than meekly capitulate, thinking the same failing plan would suddenly start working.

 

They say managers are people who seek to do things right, while leaders are people who seek to do the right things. Right now, we desperately need a leader who has the courage to break moulds and the nous to re-assemble the pieces properly. If GvB doesn't wield the knife, then in time-honoured fashion these players will take him down with them.

I come to this thread nearly a full 24 hours after last night's debacle. I was hurting so bad from what I witnessed last night I just couldn't face it. Nearly a day later I don't feel much better but I have now read through the now 39 page long match thread and now this Winners or Losers thread.

A wide mix of opinions as you would expect. Bill's post above probably some up best my own POV . I am 100% in agreement. A few of my own thoughts in support.

The Gerrard v GVB debate. The former left us before a major cup final taking the whole backroom along. The latter parachuted in by DoF very quickly. A new and better launchpad? Well, window is closed, squad is "as good as it gets" and it must be time to start making tactical and player adjustments.

The Weird Celtic manager? The turnaround is astounding. He has single handedly (with 2 Lennon buffoon coaches still there) identified replacements and a new team ethic that is fast gaining momentum.

The game itself? Completely blew us away. As most would agree it could have been a 7 - 1 from the 1950's. We did not "win" the 2nd half. Unlike Walker baying for 4 or 5, this weird Aussie quickly realised game won, drop the tempo, concede possession and see game out. He even had the audacity to bring some pimply kid on for experience. Looked more focused on the next game than rubbing our noses in it.

Even post match, there was celebration with fans but no excessive "over reaction"  like the old Broonie / Griffiths days. Their captain very measured and grounded on the games ahead. A steely determination.

It really is over to us now to respond. Leaders need to be found and step up quickly. The next 2 games are now crucial. 6 points from 6 a necessity. We can't rely on them having no resolve and crumbling. I see no sign of it. We must match their results "toe to toe" at least until OF game.

[CammyF 6,781]

14 minutes ago, Bill said:

If last night taught us one thing it's that this is not the Celtic of last August. They've been building and improving while we (at best) have stood still.

It could be argued they had a better team / players in August than they did last night.  

 

We had Kent playing clearly injured, McCorrie in goal, Balogun at right back but found ways to nullify them and win the game (from a set-piece). 

[Bill 13,717]

9 minutes ago, CammyF said:

It could be argued they had a better team / players in August than they did last night.  

It could but it would be completely wrong.

[CammyF 6,781]

29 minutes ago, Bill said:

There is no way in this world that GvB will lose his job this season or next. That just won't happen. If he fails to win the league this year then he will be given a season to respond and rightly so.

 

There's a world of difference between acknowledging inexperience in a new setting and the dangers involved if things continue to slide ... and (effectively) hanging a new manager out to dry after a couple of months in the job. We should be careful not to confuse a problem with a tragedy and leave some room for this to be where GvB earns his spurs. Postecoglou has had the advantage of essentially building a new team whereas GvB is trying to resurrect a team that's in parts well beyond its sellby date.

Much of this is true but how can GVB rebuild in the summer of most of this team are beyond their sellby date? We'll have to sell players to generate cash, unless we win the league. 

 

Sell Alfie without a replacement already in place simply can't happen as he brings so much to the team. 

 

Aribo will get us cash if he continues to play as he has but will leave a gaping hole quality wise. 

 

Kamara will be sought after and whilst I really like him, he's maybe the player we can sell without a huge impact to the starting 11. 

 

We could be looking at entire starting 11 in the summer. 

 

Their secret has been to have players in place and settled before selling so there is little or no impact then build on those foundations. The only time they didn't, we zoomed past them - they've learned their lesson, we clearly haven't. 

 

Whilst some of the signings in December were exciting, 3 were on loan (1 Long term).

 

Hardly long-termism.

 

I like GVB I want him to do well, but I want Rangers to be successful and have a long-term plan which I'm falling to see or if it's there, grasp. 

[CammyF 6,781]

11 minutes ago, Bill said:

It could but it would be completely wrong.

All about opinions. 

[Gonzo79 13,620]

Last night was hard to stomach.  We can debate and analyse it endlessly but it really boils down to having been a piss-poor, often shambolic Rangers performance.

[Bill 13,717]

2 minutes ago, CammyF said:

All about opinions. 

Yes but in this particular issue it's about as black and white as you're ever likely to see.