BrahimHemdani

I agree something along those lines might work with a starter for 10 and an annual or monthly contribution. Arsenal have a similar scheme but it really only works if there is a ST waiting list which used to be the case with us.

If rbr's posts are to be believed and I have no reason to doubt him, the Board are at loggerheads and something or someone has to give or we will make no progress in the foreseeable future. We must find significant new investment and if the current board members are unwilling or unable to provide the necessary funding they should make way for those who can. Did they all not say they are Rangers men who are only there for the good of the Club? If that is truly the case they should also recognise when tbey need to step aside.

I realise that opinions about SDM vary widely; but IMO referring to him as a b****** is totally out of order.

So you are looking at 55,000 people paying £30 per month which is 12,000 more than have season tickets, paying the equivalent of a second season ticket or more, or let's just say doubling the price of a season ticket because that would be easier. Or let's just take 40,000 folk paying an extra £500 per year, which is more than a typical ST, to achieve this £20 million. Do you really think that is realistic? I did the work on the figures when the RST was promoting the the Share Capital Acquisition Partnership Proposal to be underwritten by Jim McColl in 2010. Our plan then was to repay his £30 million by raising 20,000 x £600 + £15 per month over 5 years from 20,000 fans (equivalent to 20,000 x £25 per month for 5 years); and there were those who thought that was hugely optimisitic, despite the fact that those figures were in line with figures extrapolated from the Rangers Debenture Scheme and the 2004/05 Rights Issue, and with what Celtic achieved under Fergus McCann in 1994, having regard to the differences in shareholder base etc etc. To this day, I remain of the view that we could have achieved that; but the circumstances are different now, the Club is no longer for sale; and whilst RF/Buy Rangers/Club 1872 have achieved a 6.25% shareholding, the fact that there are now only around 8,000 fans paying an average £5 per month (and I stand to be corrected on those figures) tells it's own story. As far as an out and out membership scheme is concerned, I don't think you would get fans to pay a monthly contribution at anything like the level you suggest. I believe you could add £25/£30 to a ST, to be a member of the Club; but that would only raise £1 million a season and then you would have the cost of all the benefits. The principle benefit fans generally want is a discount in the shop and that is not within our gift at the moment. So it would be largely symbolic, though as I have suggested elsewhere it would allow a meaningful election to a Fans Board from a much wider constituency than elects the Board of Club 1872 at the moment (but that is another story!). It might be possible to combine such a scheme with a scheme for high net worth individuals, which has been successful elsewhere; but this was considered and rejected in the past both by the RST and RF; principally because HNWI generally want something in return for their investment and generally what they want is not available in a one member one vote situation.

Bump for those who missed my post about the new arrangements.

I largely agree with your sentiments, especially the highlighted section and your main point that our expectations may have been too high, when we examined the quality in our squad or the lack of it. However, there have been those who argued that we are the second best team in Scotland, and it is clear that that is not the case and even it is the case, we are second best by the length of the Govan Road. I believe, based on his after match press conference, that PC got the tactics right last week but the players did not apply those tactics or perhaps did not understand or were not capable of putting those tactics into practice. Yesterday, I believe he got it wrong. We should have had a four or five man midfield from the start, because that is where Celtic take control of the game and even if our players are not as good as theirs, effort and numbers might have kept them at bay. However, there is not much you can do when players make basic errors such as giving away a penalty when the opponent is running away from goal, losing control of the ball in midfield, not marking jumpers at free kicks etc. Except get better players. The manager is the manager and that isn't going to change unless he walks away; and then what. Those who advocate replacing him, should think about the cost and who they would have next to manage the same players into the EL Qualifiers. It's blatantly obvious that the team needs a clear out and major investment; but as I said last night the only significant player who is out of contract (apart from the loanees) is Hill and it's arguable that he should be kept. If Toral bottled it then, much as I liked him playing deep, he has to go. I have liked Hyndman but he has been out of his depth in the two old firm games and failed to make an impact. We don't know if their Clubs would want them to stay. We need players who can make some kind of impact at the top of the SPFL and in the EL. I hope PC has some such targets in mind. I'd be shocked if he didn't. But equally, I know such players cost money in fees (even signing on and agent's fees) and wages. If the current board don't have the money or are not willing to invest the money to support the manager with these kind of players then they need to find investors who are willing and able to put in the necessary funds. The reported £3million and the proceeds of selling Mackay, just won't cut it. Otherwise, we had better be ready for another 5 years of the same as we got yesterday. It's clear from the thousands who left when the third goal went in after 66 minutes and the thousands more who left when the fourth went in, that there are many for whom the prospect is not acceptable.

I don't even know if he's interested; but some pretty informed people seem to think he is. So let's say MA is not interested. We know from the ongoing court case that he's got us by the balls on the retail agreement. Let's start there. Now where do we go?

More than happy to stop. But I would like to see some genuine solutions to the mess we're in right now.

Good, that's what I'm hoping for rbr. If we can get agreement on house red (which is a Merlot BTW) and Buds, that would make the free starter a lot easier. After that it's not an issue whatever folk want to drink.

I think he just said it, didn't he?

Well that's perfectly fine, LB; but as I said earlier I don't know if their is any truth in the rumour and if not then can you please say where the investment is coming from? I'm assuming you agree we do need some pretty major investment?

He came in and gave us a loan of £5 million when we needed it; and did himself a f*** of a deal on the retail in the process; that's true.

There's a lot of sense in that. If you think back to 2007/08, we had the spine with McGregor/Alexander, Cuellar, Ferguson and Darcheville. Davis apart, the rest were journeymen; but they played to a pattern and were a TEAM. It's clear to me that the players are not entirely on board with PC's methods and tactics, hopefully that will come. The only one in your group I'm not certain about is Hill. He's been a standout in defence but I think Wilson is PC's choice going forward, so we need a commanding CB to play beside him, preferably a right sided player.

Not sure being competitive is so bad, GS. But you're wrong, I do admit my mistakes (well some of them ). I admit I was wrong about Green; but I wasn't alone there. Anyway, it's easy to have a go at folk rather than concentrating on the real issue which is how we move forward from here. Let's get some input on that please.

So let me get this right. If MA came in tomorrow and bought out DK for the £3/4million or whatever he's invested in shares and offered to pump £20/30 million into the Club, you wouldn't take it?

Well we did TRY to press them this time but that just opened up gaps in our MF which allowed them to play their pretty football and BTW they are good at that. We learned that we don't have a full back who can defend. We learned that we desperately need Kranjcar to come back fit or someone else like him to run the MF. We learned that Kranjcar apart (or possibly including) we need an entire new MF. We learned that we need a commanding CB. And most of all we learned that we need a 20 goal a season striker. We learned that Garner, Windass, Dodoo and Waghorn are not good enough to take us forward. How's that to start?

I don't know how you work out that Mike Ashley hates Rangers. He's a business man and a lot of Rangers fans (and others no doubt) don't like his business practices. I do get that. But that's not the same thing at all, well not in my book it isn't. All I did was post a fairly light hearted comment about the rumour that is currently circulating, I didn't say one way or another. What I am intelligent enough to work out is that we need some big time investment, otherwise we are looking at another 5 years minimum in the wilderness. I am also intelligent enough to know that no such investment will ever come without strings.

Admin, please remove "with Special Guest Ally Scott (Rangers 1973-76)" from the thread title. Frankie, can you redo the poster without the reference to Ally, the restaurant like your use of their font.

Let me try to inject some good news into a bad night. Firstly I can confirm that I have told Ally Scott that the dinner has been cancelled due to lack of numbers. He took it fine and agreed to be a guest should we ask him again in future. I have also been able to agree the same terms with the restaurant for the party of circa 11 as for the larger group. The dinner was costed on the basis that I did a deal with the restaurant for their 3-course menu http://www.la-fiorentina.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ChefsBigDeal.pdf normally £15.50 for £14.50 and they will hold that for the party of 11. The £3.00 add on (ticket price £17.50) was to cover the guest's meal, drinks and expenses on the assumption of a party of 20 as a minimum. So what we will do now is use the £3.00 to provide a first drink (bottle of beer or glass of wine) free. It would be helpful to know how many beer drinkers there are and how many who prefer wine. It would be even more helpful if we could agree on red or white; but I'll work it out whatever folks prefer. We have got a nice table in the long mezzanine floor for those who know La Fiorentina and we could certainly accommodate a few more if there are any others who wish to come along. However, I would need to know by next weekend. As previously stated there will be no refunds except in exceptional circumstances after next Saturday the 6th of May 2017 and no refunds at all after the final numbers have been given to the restaurant which will be Thursday 11th of May 2017. Attendees please post your drink preferences in this thread. Ditto any new guests. The restaurant are going to put on Budweiser bottles for not more than £3.50 which is cheaper than their Italian brands and they will also do us a special price (to be agreed) on the house wines, normally £17.50/bottle.

I was never in the anyone but Murray camp, far from it, and well you know it. Most folk are bored with your innuendo and have woken up to the fact that King +T3B ain't getting the job done; but you keep banging away with all that sarcasm which adds zero to the debate. How about you give us your solution? Unless you're happy with the status quo that is?

I wouldn't argue with the gist of that but equally it looked like Hill banjo-ed someone just before half time and also got away with a talking to. According to Tom Miller it was not caught on camera. Anyway I very much doubt we would have beaten a 10-man Celtic team today.

Not sure whether to post this here or in a new thread; but anyone see what happened in the Director's Box at the end? I was watching the teams come off, including Celtic in case of mischief. When I turned round there was a Police sergeant in the DB and various officers and stewards at the top. I've been sent a post from a certain other web forum headed "John Gilligan in angry exchange with a number of fans". Apparently some fans near the DB were irate when we went 5-1 down and JG "turned beetroot in the face and proceeded to give a load back to them for a good minute" (it is alleged). It is further alleged that "such was the nature of the exchange, the stewards nearby couldn't actually throw anyone out as Gilligan was as furious and aggressive as they were".

Well let's face it, Coop, the chances of DK putting up £30m are about as high as us winning the EL next season; so we need someone with a big stash and we need it pronto. Personally I don't care if it's the the Emperor of China or Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Thani, anyone with real money to invest is welcome right now. By the way what happened to Red Bull?

I don't think you can say that about Hill, his first tackle and block were terrific and I wouldn't blame much on Wilson either. We were poor defensively at FB (as usual) and overrun in MF by a quality team. They may not be all that great when it comes to Europe but they sure as hell are too good for anything else in Scotland right now.

In terms of tactics today, I'm fairly sure that PC felt obligated to go for a win at home; whereas a Walter Smith might have looked at last week and said, all I can do here is flood the midfield and hope for the best. At half time, I think he said to himself that Dodoo is getting brushed off the ball and if the game goes on like this we're going to get a hiding, so I'll take him off and put on another midfielder, Halliday, albeit too late. But we got gubbed 5-1 anyway because Celtic are far superior in every department and punished all our mistakes. It's obvious we need a clear out of the dross that MW brought in but there are only 4 players out of contract in the summer, the two loanees, Hill and Senderos; so unless MW would like to sign our team, how exactly do we get them out?