der Berliner

So Whyte should be given carte blanche to do what he wants the support should not expect to be told anything and should not question anything?

 

Have we learned nnothing from the Murray years?

No, and I would like to advise people not to look at certain things from a bipolar perspective. There is no black & white here, nor am I asking to look at it in that way. There are limits with what a businessman - whether he is chairman or something else - is going to say. Demanding what has been demanded on the various boards is IMHO far to unreasonable to ask of a businessman. He's come out with a lot (as opposed to other chairmen - Rangers or not) and set a lot of the rubbish being told straight. At least IMHO. He will not, though, go on and tell the whole wide world how he attempts to get Rangers back on track or finance the years ahead. If that is obvious to me, it should be obvious our "business-posters".

Has any other owner mortgaged 3-4 years season ticket money? Has any other owner done this and then produced accounts that don't appear to contain said money?

 

What if whyte has fraudulently taken £24m from us (although I'm not saying he has)? When should the questions be asked? Now or when it is too late?

Hardly anyone knows how other chairmen go about their business or finance their teams. Hardly any of these chairmen will tell you. No matter by whom or when these - no doubt reasonable - questions are being put forward.

I would refrain from using Whyte's obvious and equally reasonable silence about business matters nigh solely against him. He does nothing that suggests that he is any different than any other chairmen who has to look after the well being of the club's and his own money.

Today, we do speculate way too much on ifs and maybe and assumptions. No matter what we think or demand or whatnot, at the end of the day, Whyte IMHO will do what he see will benefit Rangers most. The spectrum reaches from administration to waiving 18m of debt in one go. And we can, despite the recent furore, do nothing but expect the best and wait and see what the tribunal decides.

On a sidenote ... I did chuckle on Tuesday morning when all the boards run amok about us not signing any player, people haring after Wyhte, asking for fan ownership and whatnot. After a transfer window! Where were all these upset semi-revolutionaries when the club needed them most 12+ month ago, when we indeed stared at the Lloyds abyss - long before any looming tax bill? Way too much hysteria-incited bluster now about the possibility of losing a league title because we did not sign a couple of players. Well, well ...

As I wrote in another thread:

Whyte must, Whyte has to, Whyte needs to ... yes. And preferably to the press first and foremost.

Does or did Dermond Desmond ever explain anything to the press? Did Fergus McCann? Does any other owner of a football club? Or ever has?

The press jumps on that huge HMRC bandwaggon, the support follows suit and cries even louder when Whyte does what all chairmen do: tell them what he has to and keeping the information he thinks no-one has a right to know - himself and some directors aside.

People should get real with what chairmen "have to" tell people about what they are doing.

Honestly ... we should show the dignity that befits a club of our stature and pay them this compensation. After all, they groomed him into the star player he will become ...

All I can say that the saying "football Fortune is capricious" has been evident ever since I have started following this game of chance. These last three season we have seen some interesting swings in fortune and as long as it is mathematically impossible, I will not give up on the title. The squad we have is still good enough to beat nigh any team in the SPL handsomly, we need a bit of luck in the OF games and stay clear on the injury front.

Whyte must, Whyte has to, Whyte needs to ... yes. And preferably to the press first and foremost.

Does or did Dermond Desmond ever explain anything to the press? Did Fergus McCann? Does any other owner of a football club? Or ever has?

The press jumps on that huge HMRC bandwaggon, the support follows suit and cries even louder when Whyte does what all chairmen do: tell them what he has to and keeping the information he thinks no-one has a right to know - himself and some directors aside.

On a sidenote, Rangers will not cease to exist, administration or not. Obviously, should something very nasty come to pass, would the support as a whole dig as deep into their own pockets as they cry foul on everything Whyte these days? I harbour my reservations about that ... but will get myself a ticket for the Euro 19m jackpot in the German lottery this weekend!

Maybe a change for the topic headline is appropriate.

As for news, the simplest way is to type his name into Google (and add "tax"). Naiive? I did that yesterday and came up with stuff from June about a wine-yard seized by RSA tax chaps.

I'm not actually sure if he has done met of his promises. He may have done but there hasn't been any proof one way or the other.

 

And please do not come up with this 25m over 5 years stuff, for he's done that this season!

 

He has? How do you know?

I simply look at this page.

Has Whyte actually done anything he promised? All I see is words of denial without any proof.

What has Whyte promised and not done? And please do not come up with this 25m over 5 years stuff, for he's done that this season! As he has stated before (and above).

IMHO, no chairman apart from the one of Porto FC will make much money out of a football club.

IMHO, I do still believe that Craig Whyte is a Bear and has done what he had to when the chance happened by. I doubt he's in this to make money, rather for saving his club from disaster. At least a greater disaster than losing this season's title. He sure is no white knight either, so much is clear. But there were no others out there to do it ... no billionaires, nor a fanbase able to even agree on the team sheet for the substitutes' bench.

Maybe that is naiive. Then again, so is the constant doom-mongering about his background and "games".

It was Whyte himself who kept empahsising that we were debt free as a club. How can that be the case if we had already borrowed cash from Ticketus? More misleading statements.

IMHO ... the debt with Lloyds was/is something different than something that is definately going to be paid back, e.g., a loan. There was essentially nothing certain (like a certain number of ticket sales that will come in, no matter what) to pay off the standing debt withs Lloyds, bar CL income and player sales.

Would you expect him to speak "business talk" each time he goes into any lose detail about the way certain aspects of finance is being handled in the press? I do expect these hard business figures to stand in the annual reports et al, not in each and every daily newspaper he speaks to.

On a sidenote, from a fan's perspective, one of the more important lines in the article with regard to the team is that he wants to tie in Aluko on a longer deal soon.

IMHO, and this very much based on next to no knowledge about how it is being done anywhere else ...

- Ticketus deal is being done as we have no other "facility" running (which bank would do this right now, HMRC looming?) to deal with everday costs et al; Ticketus themselves have said that this is usual practise and has been done for years, even with us; Assumption: Ticketus and Rangers assume season ticket sales to be at around at least 30k per season, no matter whether we face administration or not - neither expect that Rangers cease to exist (which IMHO is a ludicrous idea planted by you know who in the press). I wouldn't go so far as to assume that Whyte, Ticketus and Rangers have a good idea about the result of the case, but Thornton et al might (just might!) have told them how the HMRC people wanted to deal with the stuff and what chance they have to pull this off.

- Calls for the AGM. Now, call me a simpleton, but I simply cannot undrestand why people demand an AGM when it is clear since last November that there won't be any until we know about the tax case. So keeping on demanding one right now seems to be a touch foolish - no insult intended here, BTW. There won't be results until after the verdict ... and we have time till end of March 2012, have we not?

- No money ... IMHO is clear too. He obviously wants to have a neat sum ready should we face a small HMRC bill from the big case, or pay of the small one in one go.

- It smacks you in the face that those people criticising Whyte these days also had EBTs running, e.g. Bain, McClelland, and its use only stopped with Whyte.

On a sidenote - and the sceptics on here will tell me that his words are just that so far, i.e. cheap words - should he indeed waive the debt he has placed in the RFG, will those snipers and doom-singers really eat as much humble-pie as they have to?

IMHO, Whyte has been acting like he had to in these circumstances and much of what has been thrown against him has come from people well groomed and fed by the negative hysteria press and mhedia ever since the Ellis attempt. People should calm down and try to remain on an objective level. No head in sand or the like, but not envisaging the evil business shark at each corner either.

Article in the Scottish Sun

Will hopefully calm some nerves and does away with some of the stuff we had to endure these last few days and weeks!

RANGERS chairman Craig Whyte has been battered from pillar to post in the toughest week of his Ibrox reign.

Rocked by allegations of using Gers fans' season ticket money to finance his plans.

 

Slaughtered by the old Ibrox hierarchy who accused him of stripping the champions of their dignity.

 

Gutted by the £6million loss of prize asset Nikica Jelavic to Everton and the failure to find a replacement before the transfer window slammed shut.

 

Yesterday the Gers supremo came out fighting. The Rangers fans had demanded answers to the questions haunting them.

 

SunSport turned the spotlight on the under-fire owner of their troubled club.

 

This is what he said...

 

You have been accused of using Gers fans' season-ticket money to finance your regime. How do you react to that?

 

"They throw up this figure of £24.4m and say we have sold off four years of season-ticket money.

 

"The deal is actually for three years but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story, eh?

 

"The deal is also fully underwritten by one of my companies. There is no risk to Rangers fans whatsoever.

 

"I want to tell the fans that the money they put into Rangers stays in Rangers.

 

"I can reassure the fans that any money we get in is used to run the club and nothing else.

 

"I have a personal commitment of £25m in Rangers and I have never taken a penny out of the club.

 

"I don't take expenses and I travel on my own coin â?? unlike those who are sniping in the background."

 

The allegations centre around a deal with the firm Ticketus. Is it the case that they had been used by the Rangers board BEFORE your takeover?

 

"Yes, Rangers had used this company for two years before I was ever involved. I spoke to Ticketus because I knew it was a liability coming up after the takeover.

 

"A ballpark figure for that would be £7m so I spoke to them and we decided we would roll over the facility.

 

"It is a perfectly standard way to operate and I don't criticise the old board for using it."

 

It was claimed by former chairman Alastair Johnston that Ticketus' parent company Octopus was now sole creditor of Rangers and not yourself. Is this true?

 

"No, again, that is total 100 per cent c*** and I think legally actionable.

 

"Octopus are not the secured creditor of Rangers. I am.

 

"That's the sort of thing that is easy to check out but no one even bothered.

 

"That's how you end up with egg on your face, looking stupid."

 

So much of Rangers' troubles with the taxman centre around the use of Employee Benefit Trusts (EBTs) â?? the so-called offshore payments. What can you tell us about those?

 

"The bitter irony here is that former director John McClelland has an EBT and so does the ex-chief executive Martin Bain. The EBTs were stopped the day that I took over. Now we are in a world of uncertainty and if this tax case goes against us we will have a huge problem."

 

 

Can you explain the claim that £5m of VAT has not been paid?

 

"It is absolute nonsense and again I am speaking to lawyers on that one. Over the last two days I have faced claims, 75 per cent of which like that one have simply no basis in fact.

 

"I inherited £18m worth of bank debt and we had a lease on the Albion Car Park which we did a deal for.

 

"Then there are trading debts, transfers and we have spent £4m refurbishing Ibrox."

 

Rangers fans are hurting after the loss of Jelavic with Steven Naismith out for the season and Kyle Lafferty also injured. Can this squad keep the title?

 

"We know it will be tough but we feel on the whole that we have improved the team since the summer. Bocanegra and Goian have been good business and we invested £1.5m in Lee Wallace.

 

"We extended contracts in the summer for Davis, McGregor and Whittaker.

 

"There are big costs in that and hidden ones in £1m of agents' fees.

 

"Now I hate paying that out but you have to it in this business. Few understand that those deals were the equivalent of going out and spending £15m."

 

Is there money to keep the likes of Edu and Lafferty on new deals?

 

"Yes, my caveat though would be that the deals have to be sustainable. If they want double their wages then it won't happen but I want to give us the best team possible."

 

Is Sone Aluko an example of the kind of bargain you have to think of now?

 

"That was a great bit of business and he is one we will certainly be looking to extend a deal with. That was a smart deal and it's the sort of thing we need to look at now.

 

"That has to be part of our business model now because the money is not there as it once was.

 

"The problem is Rangers fans have not been used to that over the last 15 or 20 years."

 

Fans fear it could be McGregor or Davis next...

 

"We don't have to sell a big player in each window, that's not the position. We could have sought offers for those players in January but we didn't."

 

How have you found the reaction from the fans? Do you feel they are behind you?

 

"I find that many realise what we are going through.

 

"I went to the Family Section in the Broomloan Stand on Saturday and got a great reaction.

 

"That sustains me because I see what this club means to people. Look, someone has to do this job and if it wasn't me then it would be someone else.

 

"It will be satisfying when it is done and I don't regret coming in.

 

"This job is a privilege even if there are days when you wake up and wonder why you did it.

 

"One day I will wake up and know I have helped turn Rangers round and that will be the biggest job of my life. That is what I signed up for."

 

What about an AGM? Why has one not been held so far?

 

"We can't have an AGM until we have the accounts signed off.

 

"We can't get the accounts signed off until we have more clarity on the tax case. It's chicken and egg. The main purpose of an AGM is to sign off the accounts and we can't do that yet.

 

"I still think we will have it before the end of March."

 

Do you have any date from HMRC for an outcome to the Tribunal and an end to the tax saga?

 

"They don't give you a date, that's not how it works.

 

"People under-estimate how tough it is to run the business in these circumstances.

 

"Less money comes in because you have corporate fans who paid a year in advance going game by game.

 

"Then suppliers who gave you 60 days' credit want new deals. It is a battle and we have to get the message across that this is the reality of life at Rangers now.

 

"We have been the whipping boys for long enough, I just want the picture to be clear of what we are trying to work through here."

 

Would you appeal any HMRC decision if it went badly against you?

 

"We will have to assess that but I think Rangers fans are sick of living through this now.

 

"I feel the same as the fans but my sleeves are rolled up and we will get this sorted out."

 

Finally, is administration for Rangers inevitable now?

 

"No, it is not inevitable and if we can avoid it then we will.

 

"On the other hand I can't say that it won't happen either.

 

"All I can say is that I will do all I can in my power to avoid that situation."

Did Johnston say anything about how he or LBG would have handled the HMRC stuff, which evidently holds the club back just now?

He invested 20m via Ben Nevis, but not directly in Rangers Shares, but via some other business. Wikipedia is very much not up to date. Google yields only tax cases et al ...

But will he actually answer truthfully, or at all ? An open door doesnt mean he will answer what they want answered.

No, he will not. Of course! ... or maybe he will. How would we know? It is embarrassing that there is apparently a consensus that he is an even murkier figure than SDM and his deals ever was. As if we ever fully knew what SDM did. Or the chap that is the Hooped Horrors' boss beyond the Irish Sea. IMHO, we have been well groomed and trained by the doomsingers amongst ourselves and the media.

As I pointed out above, he will not reveal any stuff that is regarded confidental all over the world at any other club. Full stop. And much of what people want to know falls into this category. And that was the way under all managers we had before.

If you seriously think that Johnston, Murray (Paul), McClelland et al do not fully understand what it means to be a Ranger then you're woefully deluded.

Did I say so? I do indeed question their dignity as well as the way to conduct this whole "business", and again question their loyalty to the club when it was theirs to guide ... for years. It smacks you right on the forehead if they come out now and criticise Whyte for what he did and does, something they could not pull of by themselves.

Whyte has by now responded (not bad, hey?), the last sentence reads:

Finally. the Chairman stated that he had an open door to the RST to speak on any issues of concern to our members.

Call me stubborn, but I will not listen to this. I've been brought up with chairmen, managers, and players who fully understood what it means to be a Ranger. Fair enough, SDM (after the credit crunch) financially drove us against the wall, but ever since Lloyds took over, a great number of Rangers people let their club down by going publicly against Rangers FC and various people within it. All these directors we had these last years before Whyte took over did nothing to get us back on track financially, did not harrass SDM into actively looking for a buyer or a way to get us out of the HMRC dilemma(s). Now that they have been punted they come back and tell us (and the world) that all the bad stuff Whyte takes on with great public attention is being done wrongly? Even a dead rat's IQ should be enough to see through this ...

I would hope the first thing Ally did this morning was tying Aluko up on a long deal.

Don't know, but for the love of *insert something that is important to you* I cannot understand what people want Whyte to say here. Speak publicly about confidential business dealings and strategies? The going on's behind his businesses with and beyond Rangers? Have you EVER heard any whispers about somesuch under/from Marlborough, Murray or from the Desmond figure beyond the Irish Sea? In times when HMRC et al look/-ed at our behaviour with eagle-eyes?

He comes out with essentially all he can and has to say at the moment, whether we like it or not. Whether we are the individual supporter or some thousand-strong association. It is IMHO essential that he does not spill any beans ahead of any verdict on the case, for each little bit he does will end up in the press and be turned about until it paints us and him in a bad light. That is what happened ever since he took over.

This is perhaps the most testing time for the club, but you do wonder - after all the debates that have been done about this - why people do actually fear for the existence of the club? It will not cease to exist, whether or not the verdict goes against us. Whether or not we get 250 points deducted for these next 12 years or whatnot. We took it all in our stride, these dozens of years of success under Souness, Smith, McLeish, Advocaat et al. We should be able to take the odd year of "failure" or "dispair" into our stride as well. Rangers are for life, not for the glory seasons.

A more complete list ...

IN:

#24 Mervan Celik â?? Contract till 2015

Out:

#9 Nikica Jelavić â?? sold (£6m+ Everton FC)

#10 John Fleck â?? (Contract till 2013, loaned to Blackpool FC)

#17 Juan Manuel Ortiz â?? (Contract till 2014, loaned to Almeira, Spain)

#36 Darren Cole â?? (Contract till 2012, loaned to Partick Thistle FC)

#33 Thomas Kind Bendiksen - released (turned down contract, Tromsø IL)

#23 Jordan McMillan â?? sold (Contract till 2012, refused extention; Dunfermline Atletic)

#35 Kyle Hutton â?? (contract till 2014, loaned to Dunfermline Atletic)

#3 David Weir â?? released

Jack Werndly - (loaned to Albion Rovers)

Marc Dyer - (loaned to Ayr United)

Sam McMahon - released (?, Doncaster Rovers)

Freddie Espling - released (?, Djurgarden)

Nicolaj Kohlert - released (?, Silkeborg)

On trial:

Luigi Bruins, Jamael Cox, Matthew Mbuta

Some news ...

Cameroon international Matthew Mbuta has arrived in Scotland in an attempt to win a contract with Rangers after quitting Crystal Palace Baltimore and has described himself as a forward and not a midfielder. (Daily Express)

 

Brisbane Roar say they are monitoring former captain Matt McKay's situation at Rangers but say they are not planning an approach to take the midfielder back on loan as yet, with the Australian transfer window open until the middle of the month. (Daily Express)

 

Legia Warsaw are trying to sign Derek Riordan, the forward who has had trials with Kilmarnock and Blackpool after leaving Shaanzi Chan-Ba. (the Sun)

could be news on the tax case! then again id loved to have been a fly on the wall during craig and allys talk yesterday??

As I asked before, was Whyte even there? A lot of assumptions by the press yesterday ... and the Bears went into overdrive about it.

On a sidenote, Celik is an attacking midfielder that can play as a striker, Bruins too, if he's still there. There are still some decent enough (for the SPL) forwards about on a free, you just have to snap them up.