Anchorman

Ha ha ha - I think you have lost THE plot buddy!! I've heard a few comments about The Sash but that takes the biscuit. Do yourself a favour. Don't walk into any Rangers watering holes and say that too loudly. Just some advice sweetheart! Maybe your songs were shite perhaps?? Why don't you get a couple of recordings and we can get a panel set up - X Factor type thing. Ahhhh - brilliant. I knew this thread had to go out with a BANG at some point!!

In post 133 you state [i]"Yeah, actually, I do think there are literally thousands of people out there who would support Rangers if we got our 'PR' right. Rangers have lost the support of many of the 'Protestant' middle classes in the West of Scotland, you might not care about that, but it has cost us dearly recently and will continue too in the future if we don't address it. Bringing out orange strips does not help do that in my opinion."[/i] Well if YOUR words quoted here don't refer to different classes that ALREADY exist, and how we should 'change our ways' (pander in my eyes) to bring this flock home, I give up. YOU ARE THE ONE who speaks of how we should try to win the "middle classes" by getting our PR right. I'm all for creating the best image we can for ourselves to enhance our reputation in Europe etc but to win the "middle classes" as YOU put it. Count me out.

It's not language that I take too seriously. It's said often enough to me and I'm thick skinned enough not to get too flustered over it.

Absolutely!! 100% agree.

Andy, the LP details were put on there to show why some people may hold on to [dotted line] links to the OO i.e. the lines were a bit more solid in previous years. I have not come out ONCE on this thread to say I am strongly on any side of the arguement. If I have show me the quote and I will gladly apologise. Where I have got my shackles up is the suggestion that certain people might come to the table as fans if we get our PR right. If they were the type of fans I want they would be here now having this heated debate with us - not staying away until we get our house in order. We will agree to differ on that point as we are obviously not going to agree on the 'stay way until PR is right' debate.

Aye right you are chief! I will make more effort.

People can always interpret words in any way they like and you are free to do that if it pleases you. You see, I interpret your comment "Why shouldn't we try to appeal to ALL classes" as you saying we don't at the moment, and that we should in some way change to fit certain classes. I SAY WE DO APPEAL TO ALL CLASSES NOW. I know plenty of people from all walks of life who are happy with how we are. I'm only using the 'middle class' phrase to keep it in context with how it was raised. You can remove the phrase from my comment and replace it with 'anybody' i.e. ANYBODY who is fickle enough to stay away because our PR isn't right can fuck off in my eyes.

If we are at home - probably. If we had been drawn away - probably not much bloody chance.

I have in front of me an official Rangers LP (album for the younger ones) from 1968 called Follow Follow Rangers sung by The Blue Boys Of Ibrox. [it's the one with the big Rangers rosette on the front with the little good luck horseshoe in the middle]. On the back is a summary of our history to the point in time. There is also the paragraph - "The songs are from the past. Tunes of glory. Melodies that ring out with the romance of Rangers. Words that spin out the glittering parade of their triumphs. They are songs of the people because Rangers are of the people. In a city where the harsher facts of life are known to most men, Rangers help to provide the alchemy that can dust a dull life with golden promise. For no deeper reason than that they will follow Rangers, and sing their praises. THESE ARE THE ANTHEMS". The songs on the LP include The Sash My Father Wore, No Surrender, Orange Lilly'o. To say that the Orange Order has (or has had) nothing to do with Rangers doesn't show the whole picture. In fact it is very much open for debate, and possibly with no 'right' answer to be found. For generations of families who remember Glasgow life back then will remember they were very close cousins [and have remained so in many peoples eyes]. To dismiss the link now is to dismiss generations of beliefs among many fans, particularly in Glasgow. It is a very emotive subject as this thread proves and I don't think anyone is in a position to take the moral high ground.

Are you George Galloway's love child? I do admire your indefatigability !!!

Ha ha ha ha - What complete and utter shite and you fuckin know it!! The 'class' card was played when someone suggested we pander to the middle classes who are staying away as 'we don't have our PR right yet'. I said fuck them as Rangers is not and never should be divided into classes. Read the posts before posting inaccuracies, but why let the truth get in the way?

If it makes me a coward in YOUR book I will live with that. Lack of class? If you mean lack of class snobbery, then I can also MOST CERTAINLY live with that. My comment about 'plain English' wasn't aimed at you, as it was a general statement, but if the cap fits and all that. It is something close to my heart at the moment as I have been involved in a number of commercial conferences taking place on the very subject. In general it discusses what the need is for people to use overly eloborate language in an environment where it's not always welcome or suited (it is a fact that it is often a barrier to open discussion as some people feel intimidated by it, which may be the purpose in some cases e.g. George Galloway. Certain people use it to mask their own insecurities). I stand by it. It doesn't intimidate or impress me. I choose not to do it because I would rather leave debates open to all people, regardless of their academic background, rather than take the chance that some people won't engage as they feel a bit intimidated. Personal choice for everyone of course.

"Thousands" if we got our PR right??? Can you pass on my apologies and tell them we are trying our best. Can't wait to have them on board - the place will be jumping when they get here. We've lost the middle classes??? Well whoop de fuckin do!! It shows me what fickle areseholes they are in the first place then if they can turn their back on us so easily. I'm from a very working class background in Glasgows East End. I've been fortunate enough to be successful in business and would probably be classed as at least middle class, but I would shoot down anyone in my presence who tried (as I have done many times in the past), because what the fuck is 'class' ??????? Brian Laudrup and Davie Cooper were class. Tonights Ryder Cup Winners were class. Rangers fans divided into classes??? Go fuck yourself you pompous pricks that even think like that. Ban me from this board if you like Admins but Rangers fans being divided into classses by pretentiously eloquent clowns on here is NOT the Rangers way. And while I'm at it, can you promote a 'get back to plain English' on here. While I can understand the big fancy words our 'eloquent' posters on here love to use to show how academic they are, they are well aware that it is not the 'common' language of the football fan and they should make more effort. After all they are discussing the working classes sport! We sing a song about 4 boys who had a dream and "they had no money or even a ball". And you speak of middle classes who will only come if we get our PR right. MAKES ME SICK TO THE STOMACH!!

If anyone comes across a spare ticket for next Saturday can you let me know (unlikely I know but if you don't ask and all that..........)? Cheers

I can assure you 100% that Brown and Ally are in the same circle socially in East Kilbride.

Orange & T Mobile joined. Already shortened to EE. How long before E2 as EE is not exactly the easiest of logos to deal with? E2 to fight it out with O2? Anyway the future maybe bright but not orange any more for them

Aren't you being a bit ismist?

And so you should. It's very impressive (I'm also impressed with myself managing a sub clause) :-)

Mine was Coors and Pinot mate, and my grumpy sore head today is linked to the very same. Good lively debate though as you say. Still say you are bonkers though :-) !

Not too much I can disagree with there. If we choose to do (or not) anything as a fanbase it should always be on our terms. I'm sick to the back teeth of comments around PR etc etc and how others perceive us. Outside of our own support we are hated and anyone who can't see that is blind. Surely to God the last year has proved that. All the 'PR' in the world isn't going to change that. All it will lead to is more and more of us pandering to their whims in an unachievable quest to be liked.

Very eloquently put and all that, but "those of us" that you seem to be aiming at are still left with the same question after digesting the contents of your very admirable response. Who the fuck are we trying to win over here and send out "positivity messages" to? Who is waiting to join or ranks if we get our PR right? You my friend are also very naive in my eyes despite your academia.

Well OP you are in the minority - like it or lump it. If you think there are families out there waiting to support Rangers if we get our PR right then you are (1) naive in the extreme, (2) 'radio frickin rental' , or (3) at the wind up!! If recent events haven't taught you what the rest of this country think of Rangers even when we were at our lowest ebb, then I will suggest (1) above is the most likely.

You haven't answered anything about my post reagrding the 2000 Cup Final. Do plenty of Rangers fans look offended here - http://ayeready.com/features/images/oranje1.jpg ?

ABSO 'BLOODY' LUTELY!!! In a nutshell!!

Read my post properly. Orange strip DOES NOT = Orange Order. I was mocking your perception that it does. Answer my question about what PR means in your context as far as Rangers is concerned.