JohnMc

I'm taking my two sons to Ibrox for the first time this Saturday. Hamilton Accies at home under a caretaker manager perhaps wasn't the match I envisaged would be their first when they were born but we're all out of big European nights and glamour friendlies currently. My first match was John Greig's testimonial game in 1978. In truth I was too young to appreciate it but my dad so admired Greig he wanted me to see him play and he wanted to pay tribute to him. We played a Scotland select and I've only a few memories of it. One was the Nottingham Forest winger John Robertson's family sitting behind us and supporting Rangers. He later became assistant manager at Celtic, I always wondered how they felt about that. My Dad is coming on Saturday too, along with my brother-in-law (who is actually a St Mirren fan!) and two of his sons, my nephews. It'll be their first Rangers game too. My youngest is a year older now than I was in 1978 so I'm not sure how much he'll remember about it when he's in his late 40s. Neither of my boys are as interested in football as I was at their age, but they both say they support Rangers (my wife laughed when I 'd say to people I'd let them choose who they supported, she's right, that wasn't ever going to happen) so they're very excited about it. Anyway, I don't always agree with everyone on Gersnet about everything, sometimes even I realise I'm being a thrawn at times. But I'm strangely emotional about Saturday, it feels like a big deal. Also, if you could try and not swear too much on Saturday that would be great!

I've not met that many ex-Celtic players but I have met a few and most were surprisingly friendly and warm about Rangers. I think ex-players do view things differently to supporters. I was at a function a few years back and Frank McAvennie was there. I'd him down as ned, nothing more. But I was really surprised by him. He not only spoke well, his anecdotes were very funny, he was self-deprecating and when he realised there were a few bluenoses there told some cracking stories about Souness. I wanted to hate him, it was annoying!

It's an interesting thread this one. Darther complained there are "sooooo many labels", I think there are four, maybe a couple more, it's not exactly a difficult number to count either way. As for fear of offending someone, if you do, apologise, ask what term you should use, use that one and then move on. It's not that hard. It also seems to get rolled up with other grievances people have with current society. I mean this has literally got nothing to do with poppies being sold at someone's work, or what kind of toilet's Starbucks has, literally nothing. Likewise whether someone got their knob out in front of Craig's wife or traumatised Gonzo's son by having an arse. There are already laws regarding that, make a complaint. Also that apparent teacher being suspended, you might want to hang on before shouting about that one too much. There's more to come out about his behaviour, his disregard for rules and the 'evangelical' zeal he's got for imposing his beliefs on children he's supposed to be teaching academic subjects too. The Christian Legal Centre are Tea Party wannabe creationist loonballs, be interesting to see how many of us would want him teaching our kids. Anyway, I'm pleased the club are willing to support openness and welcome all to the stadium.

I've met Jim Craig a few times and I quite liked him, he's smarter than your average ex-player. Unfortunately I also think he's correct in his observation about Ibrox.

This isn't about "celebrating" anything, it's about saying to some people who might feel marginalised or that they have to hide who they are shouldn't be scared or nervous about coming to watch Rangers. If your son or daughter asks about the rainbow laces (and, frankly, your kids will already know about them and will probably explain them to you) it's not a difficult conversation to have. It's about saying everyone is welcome, there isn't anymore to explain than that. There are almost certainly homosexuals in the current Rangers squad, but they haven't come out. I'd be astonished if the Rangers women's side doesn't have some lesbian players too. These people exist, they are part of our communities, they're your son or daughter, nephew, they are someone at work. I went to school in the 70s and 80s and if someone had come out as gay at my secondary I genuinely worry they'd have been kicked to death. I can remember guys who got a terrible time at school because there was just something a wee bit different about them. Isn't it better now? All this being hung up on genders and fluidity, where does it mention any of that in the story? It's not about whether you think men can become women or the reverse, it's about whether someone should feel safe and comfortable being themselves at a Rangers match. The very fact that we're even discussing this on Gersnet is proof that campaigns like this are needed and can work.

I found a home in your eyes? Are we encouraging him to score or asking him on a date?

Serious question Frankie; what's tricky about it? Is it just the nomenclature? In the post above Bill used the term "torrent of crap" which Gonzo seems to have agreed with. Perhaps Bill or Gonzo will expand on their concern(s) with this. Not knowing what the correct term is to describe someone seems to me a fairly low barrier to understanding the issues people face though. Perhaps Bill and Gonzo's response to this is exactly why the club should be getting involved.

Why does this topic upset people so much?

My issue with the statistics analysis in football is its inability to factor in the team aspect of football. In cricket or baseball you can measure the bowler and the batsman in isolation, they are less reliant on the other members of their team at that specific moment, although not totally unreliant. Football is different. Take Tav, would he have better stats for example if he'd a player like Stevie Davis in front of him instead of Candeias? Yes, he would, but would that make him a better player? In 2010 Kilmarnock sold Connor Sammon to Wigan for £600,000. Anyone who has seen Connor Sammon play would raise an eyebrow at that figure because to put it bluntly he's a pretty average journeyman striker. Sammon was in his third season at Killie having scored the grand total of 7 goals in 49 matches in the previous two seasons Sammon amazingly scored 18 goals from 27 appearances in his final season sealing his move south. So what happened, how did Sammon go from energetic dumpling to international player in one season? Well, Kilmarnock signed an alcoholic Finnish genius called Alexie Eremenko. Eremenko hates training, can't tackle and doesn't like running on the pitch, but he can turn like few players, has wonderful vision and can make a pass from almost any position on the pitch. With Eremenko playing Sammon in half a dozen times every game Sammon turned into a goal machine and Kilmarnock's bank manager had a smile on his face for the first time (and last) in years. Connor Sammon scored a grand total of one goal in 43 appearances for Wigan. He's currently on loan at Partick Thistle where he mainly operates as a sub. Now Sammon's stats were stunning for one season, but they didn't tell you the whole story. I quite like stats and no doubt some of them are helpful, but they can be very misleading as well. Football is a team game and each player is very reliant on the players around him. One player's passing stats can be greatly improved if the players around him make themselves available to take a pass, but if he's forced to hoof it into the channels then his stats won't be as good, but that doesn't tell us if he's a better player or not. Likewise having someone who can get on the end of a cross greatly improves the likelihood of a full back or midfielder crossing the ball in the first place. I think there are under-rated players out there, players who do a ton of work that's not always seen or appreciated by fans, and stats like distance covered and number passes can help with that. But the only way to judge a player is to see him play, in the flesh, against other players.

Well it's not completely irrelevant, but it's not exactly the same I accept that. That's why I'd have expected him to go for two thirds of Toral's value even though McKay had played twice as many first team games and has international experience unlike Toral.

From the perspective that he was clearly a wanted player by a manager who knew him well and a club in the fairly prosperous English Championship I'd have expected us to take at least double that amount. For all McKay was untested at that level clearly Warburton, Weir and McParland rated him and wanted him so we had a bit more leverage than was being suggested. Plus if Jon Toral is worth £3 million to a Championship club and ex-Motherwell keeper Darren Randolph is worth £5 million then McKay is worth at least £2 million and I think he was a better player than Toral.

It's your 'Moneyball' effect on football, innit. That works for baseball and with cricket too but I'm not sure it works as well with football, they're very different sports. I could be convinced Candeias is a more effective player than he sometimes looks, but anyone who watches Tav knows he goes to sleep at crosses when at the back post, no amount of pass completion/final third assists or whatever can measure that rather large defensive frailty he has.

This isn't about whether Boyd was the best striker of all time or not, it's about this belief some have that he's not qualified to comment on players playing in the same league as him, that's just bizarre. I'd have thought your opinion on some of the players you played with, and against, when in the Juniors would be better informed and accurate than your views on someone you'd never actually played against, don't you? If you were actually playing in the SPFL just now Boabie then your opinion on current SPFL players would carry more weight on here than most of the rest of us. As an aside I rate Boyd more for what he did in his spells with Kilmarnock (and is still doing for them) , playing with poorer players and getting far fewer chances than at Rangers.

Hasn't Jack had 4 red cards, didn't he get one in pre-season too? Jack deserves criticism for his red card against Kilmarnock, rescinded or not. He was incredibly naive to get involved with Broadfoot, if he's being out-smarted by big Kirk he's not ready for full international matches. Is it arrogance to voice the opinion that someone might not be good enough for international football just because that person isn't anymore? Where does that leave you and me then!

So the top goal scorer in the history of the SPL isn't qualified to comment on the players he's faced this season on the park? Okay... Who'd you play for again Boabie?

Picking a local player for international friendlies being played in the provinces is a tried and tested way of generating interest and boosting the crowd dB, there maybe more than one reason why Germany do better than Scotland at international level! Why is it our hackles go up whenever someone makes a mild criticism of a Rangers player? Surely no one believes Boyd now has an agenda against Rangers! I don't know why people are so critical of Boyd, as someone who is actually playing against these guys he's better qualified to comment than pretty much every other pundit. Plus it's refreshing not to hear the usual platitudes and blandness players usually trot put on these occasions. Jack isn't good enough for international football and his record this season for red cards, whether rescinded or not is really poor. It's a fair criticism. Likewise Shinnie, Boyd's point about where will he play is bang on. One thing Scotland is blessed with currently is decent full backs, Shinnie isn't even the 5th best left back in Scotland, it's a nonsense.

I'm not convinced Jack should be in the Rangers side far less the Scotland side! I'm pleased for him that he was called up but surprised all the same. As for Boyd's comments about Shinnie who can disagree with him? Boyd got pelters when he criticised the appointment of Cathro and yet was proved correct. Boyd might yet turn out to be one of the shrewder and braver pundits in our game.

Nationality is a funny thing. For some people it's black and white, if you were born in a particular country that's where your from that's the country you should feel everything for. But it's not that way for many people. Aside from those of us who simply don't have a great deal of 'national pride' in us there are people who have mixed backgrounds, a parent or grandparent from somewhere else can make a difference to how someone feels about that country. Then there's the pragmatic nationalist, perhaps like this lad, who maybe feels Ireland (Republic of or Northern Ireland, that article isn't clear?) offers a better route to full international football, a career in the game and more money and opportunities. But, there probably isn't a story here if the boy didn't play for Rangers. That's the angle, isn't it? This lad should be staunch, hate Ireland and everything about it, that's the stereotype after all. Boo him and abuse him on social media so we can report that tomorrow. Is he any good?

Many moons ago when Rangers used to train at Jordanhill College you could go along and watch them as it was basically a public park. When they played bounce games both Alexei Mikhailichenko and Pieter Huistra were unbelievable to watch. The others literally couldn't get the ball off them, it was incredible, I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. Their close control and dribbling was like nothing I'd ever seen before, I saw Huistra nutmeg John Brown twice in the one move to roars from the rest of the players. But you know come Saturday John Brown started and Huistra and Alexei Mikhailichenko were on the bench. Trevor Steven was fantastic in those games too but at least he was pretty good on a Saturday as well.

Pedro gave him a one year contract extension in April so you have to assume they were getting on okay then. You know, even if Miller was completely to blame, and it's a big if, for what happened, that still doesn't prove there's a discipline problem at the club. It's one player clashing with the manager, not an endemic malady running through the club.

I missed the National today. Was it written by that guy who writes in broad Scots or by the guy who's a dog?

Have you watched the incident where Dorrans gives Miller the armband? Does he look coerced or bullied into it? Anyway, Miller was sent to the youths for allegedly speaking to the Record about the incident, not for the incident itself.

Does this cabal you just invented have a name dB? You really should give them one, and make it sound menacing or secretive that'll heighten the sense of threat they wield to anyone stupid enough to cross paths with them... Sorry, I'm ridiculing you, amn't I, and you predicted that too so maybe your secret powerful cabal isn't such a batshit crazy idea after all. Or is that what I'm meant to think? You've no idea how high this goes! Honestly? What's with the allergy to facts on this thread? It's like a rejected storyline for Scooby Doo.

Okay. Why do you think Murty didn't leave Miller out? Why do you think the Director of Football didn't instruct him to leave him out? Why do you think Stewart Robertson didn't instruct him to leave Miller out? Indeed why do you think he was given the captain's armband? You have to assume that was done with the full knowledge of everyone who matters at the club? Could it be that we're rotten from the top down, spineless and cowed by one player nearing the end of his career? Or do you think they actually thought Miller was badly treated and that Pedro was at fault? Miller didn't speak out. Miller took his 'punishment' without comment. It took three weeks before his agent complained, whether with Miller's blessing or not we can only assume he did. But he made it clear he'd no issue with being dropped for poor form, but was unhappy at being banished for apparently speaking to the press. If an experienced member of your team feels they are being unjustly treated by their manager, how long do you think they should keep quiet about it for, particularly if they feel they're being ignored when they do raise it?

I don't know what to say Darthter, you want me to provide evidence to refute stuff you made up! I don't know how to do that, should I make it up too? What I'll say is this. The fact Miller was made captain last weekend suggests Murty, the first team coaches and the board of directors felt he deserved it. That suggests to me they believed his version of events or at least had sympathy for how he was treated. These people aren't stupid, if they were angry at Miller and held him culpable he'd never have got the armband. They're on the inside, they know what actually happened.