calscot

As I said, if you walk off you forfeit the game. I don't see the precedent. If both teams walk off the game is abandoned. In a friendly that matters not a jot.

Maybe that will move the Alexander talks a long a bit...

While many would like to see us stuck in the bottom tier for another season, you'd have to expect a smidgen of common sense to prevail relating to greed and self preservation. It doesn't seem possible that they could do it next season but for their own pocket it would make more sense to wait until the season after when you'd expect Rangers to finish in the top two and therefore be included in the SPL2. However, it seems our leagues are run by morons and I think we should seriously think about jumping ship to a lower tier of the divisions down south. Our club represent something like 25% of all football fans in Scotland - and yet don't get a say and yet teams with 0.25% do - and then call us "cheeky". You couldn't make it up. If we stick with this sorry lot, we need to keep a long, long memory for this kind of stuff. The tail is truly waging the dog.

I think you should always post a link as well out of courtesy and as a reference, but there is much I read without wanting to give a site the illusion of popularity. Often I'm only reading to see what an enemy is writing and also in order to join in the debate. It makes me cringe when I see Phil whatshisname and Spiers near the top of the News Now top stories list - I'm hoping that's all tims clicking on it and not bears. But there are other sites that I don't want to credit with hits. But that's also in addition to the fact that it takes away the flow of thread if you're clicking here and there and it's a hassle. Not only that you don't know what the content is going to be like and whether there is something embarrassing that's going to be on your screen or a video advert blaring out without your consent. My pet hate is links without explanation and I NEVER click on those.

HMRC must be owed about £25m and Ticketus something like £35m.

You don't care how much better we are than others?

This site: http://stats.football365.co.uk/dom/SCO/PR/attend.html has Celtic at 42567 and us at 47111. I think ours will be reasonably accurate (and tallies with the other site), but with theirs, who knows?

I sometimes get the feeling that the SPL 12-12-18 proposals are a two fold assault - the first to water down any threat from the SFL and second to bugger us up. Some are probably seething that we're getting bumper crowds while theirs are dwindling. It's all very well Rangers fans being up for the adventure of the lower leagues but can you imagine the drop in interest if more than half the games next season are against the same clubs as this season? The fairytale nature would evaporate and it would become a drudge. However, Sky probably know that too and so not only will the SPL have dropping viewing figures, the crutch of Rangers games will also be weakened both at home and in England. There just won't be much of a product to sell. They really know how to damage themselves by attacking others.

Horrible site for that link; here's another link although it's pretty short:

I think his point is that he could win the league three seasons in a row and not be considered a success and if he fails once he'll be seen as a failure. That's further complicated by being seen as a failure if he doesn't win by a big enough margin. Our squad at the moment is no more likely to win one of the two major cups than an average SPL side but he'll be seen as a failure if we don't win them. He will only be judged as a success for winning the top league and a trophy or two and a good run in Europe - EVERY year...

I don't think any said they didn't want to give him two years. There are some who are not sure if he's worth 10k a week for two years. I doubt many would want to give Miller that kind of money either but to be fair, he is more qualified than Neil to earn that kind of money based on previous wages and the fact that strikers usually get paid more than keepers. I don't think many disagree with your there. I think there is a faint hope that as his career looks pretty much near its end and as he should be a very rich man by now, that he'd take a more affordable wage for us - a sum that would be way more than most of us earn - say five grand a week. There's no guarantee but you'd have to expect a guy of his experience to find it not too difficult against division 3 opposition. We don't really need to beat Elgin every week to win the league with a lot to spare but with the reaction of some on here perhaps we need a guy who can put a game to bed. Although some would call it, "papering over the cracks". I put money on Miller to score more than Boyd now. He has more of the work rate and all round game. I really can't see Boyd bothering his arse in our division and judging by his latest scoring stats he's not exactly putting them away. Kenny scored plenty when Boyd wasn't in the team.

As I've said elsewhere, if that's the case why are we expecting to trounce teams in every game? How can you learn anything if the opposition are easy?

What do they learn from first team games that they don't learn in the top U21 league? If there is something to learn in division three then we shouldn't be expecting to thrash teams every week with young players that are learning from it. We didn't expect them to walk the SPL U21 league. A lot of players have learned tons by playing next to an experienced and wise player. I'm sure Danny Wilson benefited hugely from playing next to Weir.

How much will he be offered elsewhere if we drop him now? The last record of his performance will be that howler...

That only works if you become a more valuable employee and also if your company is doing ok. Footballers start to get worse with age at a certain point. Contracting is different from a salary where you get a wage increase as part of your permanent contract. I've been top of my scale for about 8 years and so have not been rewarded for my experience. Due to inflation this year I'm having something like an effective 5% pay cut. You have to live in the reality of the business your in. But the point stands that he can ask for anything he likes, I just find it strange when those who indirectly pay for the fantastic wages are still rooting for them in the negotiations. Average wage for a top class keeper in Scotland? Hmm. He must be worth it this year as he's been offered it, the question is: is he worth it next year. We don't know the ins and outs but from the information we're being fed, the sticking point appears to be the second year. We're not sure whether he's been offered a deal on that at all or whether the offer for the second year is too low for him. That may be the case if we'd not offered him anything for the second year. I very much doubt that, at best he'd make a tiny bit more than for one year due to tax differences. I would guess he wants a two year deal at the current rate and thinks he may be able to get that elsewhere. Next year may be more difficult for him to get a new contract so I can see that point and nobody likes a one year contract as you can't plan. I'm not saying he's a money grabber, my point is that we shouldn't be feeling sorry for every player who rejects what to us is a huge contract. As I've said a few times, it's like feeling sorry for a top class plumber who wants an arm and a leg to fix your pipes.

Maybe I need to reiterate my point: It doesn't matter how much a person is asking for or how long a contract they want, you don't just give them what they want because you understand they want security. We all want security but that doesn't mean we can demand as much money as we like from our employers and expect to get it. Alexander has been made a good offer for one year but he wants it for two; that's been turned down by his employer. Perhaps if he takes a pay cut for the second year he will get the extension. We don't really know the details. Charles Green, if nothing else seems to have his eye on the finances of the club, perhaps we need to give him a bit of trust in these kind of matters. Personally, if players were on commensurate wages to the fans I'd be rooting for them a lot more, but can't understand why people have so much sympathy for someone who want "security" even though they've already been paid millions and have been offered another half million. Especially when it comes out of your own pocket.

But I thought I was agreeing with you... 520k a year for two years is too much for me, and obviously for Green too so no need to contact him. I'm finding your viewpoint quite confusing and you haven't answered the points I made. You seem to be following the strange fashion for thinking of "pay them what they want" because it's not directly coming out of your bank account. I'm sure you are different when it comes to a quote for your kitchen, bathroom or MOT.

Yeah, I get that but don't get what point is trying to be made by mentioning him...

I thought you were talking about financial security where money is the bottom line. If money has nothing to do with it, I'd be quite happy if he received a five year contract for 50 grand a year. Is that secure enough? I'd be very happy with a contract like that myself.

A friendly is different as it's inconsequential - they basically threw the match. A player would be far less likely to walk off in a competitive game. He would need to be substituted. Tactical racist chanting would be dangerous as you could just get your club banned from Europe instead.

You cough up the money and I'll agree with you. PS really don't get your first point. Are names and nationality important?

Which part?

Usually I'd like at least 8 experienced players in the team. At this level I'm happy to have less but think there should be more experienced players than inexperienced. Recently we've had about four. Sounds great for the kids but then what's the difference to playing in the SPL U21 league? It seems taken as read here that SPL U21's should be better than SFL3 players and the more you play the better then surely playing in the SPL U21 league should develop you more than playing in a team full of youngsters in SFL3? But, but, but young players are "ruined" by that... There is no logic on here when it comes to youngsters and that extends to the "I'll be patient with results if we play more youngsters" myth. The reaction after 11 wins and then a draw debunks that one. Kids are inconsistent for the most obvious of reasoning, and yes you can blame the experienced players but they are usually backed up on a bad day by other experienced players. Our young players can't be great and our team crap simultaneously when there are so many in it.

Is he worth the same money in the second year so close to retirement age? That's probably the sticking point.

Don't quite get this attitude for footballers that rarely extends to far lesser paid mortals. I take you can understand a mechanic, plumber or builder charging you loads more than the next one as it's for the financial security of their children? Every penny he takes for his "job" is paid for by hard working fans who are entitled to value. £1m is the average earnings of a lifetime; he wants that for two years "work". Maybe he can get that elsewhere but I'm not going to sympathise with him when it's our money.