chilledbear

You on about? Asking a straight question. If Green needs the ST money for the running of the Club, D&P haven't done their job properly

Wrong thread!

A question if you please. Probably quite basic but it has been on my mind. With the rumours of Green not having the funds and that he needs the ST money. I thought he had to prove to Admin that he had enough investors and money in the bank to fund the Club going forward, before they would allow him to buy. Surely they wouldn't take the ST money as proven funds.

This was posted on FF last night. Something I know zilch about, any comments. I understand that....... ...........despite all the (secretive) promises to the RFFF, Green desperate to get access to this money to fund tax securities. What is a tax security? In a situation like ours, once the newco starts trading, the taxman will come along and serve something called a Notice of Requirement. This means that the newco will have to put up a cash security equivalent to say 4 months vat in advance. The taxman will keep this for say 2 years, if you like insurance that the newco pays the VAT on time. They will also do something similiar for PAYE tax. If the security is not paid, then the newco is trading illegally, and will be closed. Green urgently needs to find this money, as he had not considered this. Meantime, recently failed "bidders" continue to mount there next move.

Is it just guess work on Wilsons part ? Will need a quick rebuttal by Green, these rumours could be the end, if supporters fear for the ST money.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/creditors-retain-claim-on-rangers-season-ticket-cash.17946985 Ibrox season-ticket renewal money gathered by direct debit is being held in the oldco Rangers' bank account, where it can be claimed by creditors, after Charles Green's group failed to make the necessary banking arrangements. The chief executive said the funds were ring-fenced in a secure account, but Herald Sport can reveal the required legal process is only in the early stages and could take four to six weeks, meaning that fans' money is not being held securely for the newco club's use. Herald Sport also understands that the counter-offer made by Zeus Capital to the consortium backed by Jim McColl and Douglas Park last week valued the club at £16m, only four days after Green's Sevco group bought the business and assets for £5.5m. Negotiations between the two parties broke down after Zeus Capital, who were involved in the talks for Green's Sevco consortium, responded to a £6m offer by asking McColl to buy 50% of the club for £8m. As part of the deal, McColl's group would have been allowed two directors, while Sevco retained three, meaning decisions would not be made on an equal basis. McColl's consortium considered this an unrealistic bargaining position and withdrew. However, they do remain interested in buying the club. There remain concerns about Green's consortium having the working capital to run the club. The chief executive said yesterday: "I can reassure all fans season-ticket money will be ring-fenced in a secure account and will not be used before the current issues are resolved". However, Herald Sport can reveal that money that has already come into the oldco's bank account is not ring-fenced, and no means to transfer it to the newco have been established. The process of securing the season ticket funds requires legal agreements from Duff & Phelps, who currently run the oldco's business, BDO, who will move in as liquidators, and a guarantee from Green's newco. The process could take as long as six weeks to ensure proper protections are in place, meaning that the current funds are part of the oldco's assets and, so, within reach of the creditors, despite Green's assurances to the contrary to the Rangers Fans Fighting Fund in a private and confidential meeting last Wednesday night, and then again in a statement yesterday. Having set up the newco, direct debit mandates should have been sent out to all supporters informing them of a change in the banking details and requiring them to sign the mandates before money could be taken out by the newco. However, Sevco have been unable to arrange corporate banking facilities. Andy Kerr, the chairman of the Rangers Supporters Assembly, also raised concerns yesterday about the lack of guarantees from Green about his plans for the club and the identity of his investors. "The fans' contribution via season tickets is around £20m, and I am sure most are keen to plough that money in and get the club's coffers up," Kerr said. "But we don't just want to hear how much Mr Green and his associates plan to invest. We need evidence about what they plan to do."

http://t.co/idbkwEmo Charles Green may soon be wishing for an exit strategy. The Rangers chief executive continues to be at pains to stress that his consortium is making a long-term commitment to the Ibrox club, but the reality is that he faces a series of obstacles just to make it through the summer. The first, and most pressing, is funding. Zeus Capital have not built their funding book, even though Green claimed that he would raise £30m by the end of July. Allowing for a comment to be made in the heat of the moment, it was still a preposterous statement. There are serious concerns that Green may not be able to pay Thursday's wage bill, and the sudden appearance of interested buyers seemed a timely coincidence. Just 24 hours after Walter Smith's consortium withdrew their £6m offer, news broke yesterday of two Glasgow businessmen â?? Allan Stewart and Steve McKenna â?? intending to bid £11m to take control of Rangers. The pair claim that the bid is not ready and that word broke too soon, but if they have not been in contact with Green then the news could only have come from their camp. Given the pair do not seem to have the wherewithal to fund such a bid they are either fronting for someone else â?? if so, who? â?? or are a handy leverage for Zeus to set their exit price. Herald Sport understands that as well as financing issues â?? there are doubts that the newco has even been able to arrange corporate banking facilities â?? Green has been privately admitting that the likelihood is that the Scottish Premier League vote will be lost, sending Rangers into either the first or third division. Such an outcome would shorten the queue of potential investors that Zeus Capital might have been able to tempt, even without the complication of having to deny the involvement of Mike McDonald and Rafat Rizvi, a British citizen who was once on Interpol's wanted list two years ago, as investors. Now Green faces the complication of players not turning up for pre-season training, because they fear it will undermine their case for rejecting the transfer of their contract to the newco. The position of the Professional Footballers' Association Scotland is that the players could also seek a protective award claim of 13 weeks' wages because they believe that the Transfer of Undertakings Protection of Employment procedures were not adhered to. This could leave Green's newco facing a £5m claim. The union also believes that all of the players are now effectively free agents, since the oldco Rangers cannot be considered a football club any more and because the newco, which Green claims holds the contracts, is not registered with the SPL or the SFA, so also cannot be a football club. Players and their agents are angry at the way they have been treated by Green, who has never sought to communicate with them, and many feel that they are being manipulated. By taking part in pre-season training, or accepting the wage that is due on Thursday, many believe they might undermine their position. "Players have had no contact from the club," one agent said. "All parties failing in their duties under TUPE, which is to consult, inform and leave a reasonable amount of time. They have to be given a reasonable amount of time, to consider implications, seek advice and come to a decision to TUPE over or not. "According to Mr Green they're not employed by oldco. They're certainly not employed by newco because they need to have the opportunity to decide to TUPE over or not. Newco is not constituted in any way in Scottish football, so have no basis to register the players in any way. Under oldco, players are due to come back to training on Thursday. They no longer belong to oldco and they haven't had a request from anybody to turn up." It will only gall Green further that the vast majority of the players would agree to their contracts being transferred under the consortium that was led by Smith and is still backed by Jim McColl and Douglas Park. Some would still retain their minimum fee release clause, but they would be prepared to join the newco and then be transferred, out of loyalty to Smith, McCoist and the club. It is Green, who has refused to engage with them but has sought to force them into joining the newco, who they are at odds with. "Case law has confirmed that an employee can object to the transfer after it has occurred â?? where the employee(s) don't know the identity of the transferee (newco)," an employment law specialist said. "It might be argued by the players that they had no opportunity to object as neither Duff & Phelps nor the Charles Green Consortium formally advised them or their union that the transfer was taking place."

I wonder who made that one up ?

Anymore from the meeting yesterday? Surely if the questions from C Graham were asked, and answered. At least one can be told to the people who supply the money to RFFF. After the recent past of our Club, if those in charge want our hard earned, they will have to be more open. That includes fan groups who are nothing without those who contribute.

He is an employee of Rangers, as I said before, how can he ask the difficult questions.

We are becoming more of a music hall act the longer this goes on. People like Struth, Waddell and Jock Wallace must be turning in their grave.

We will not get 50k through the gates. No matter what division we are in. In the first division we would be lucky to get 30k. No Europe, stringent cuts in wages, far less quality on the park, less sales from the stores. That will mean less sponsorship, less Hospitality Boxes, less chance of a successful share issue. If anyone thinks a Merchant Bank, or A N Other, is going to hang around for however many years, they are deluded.

Your joking. That could be the Assembly statement after meeting Whyte, two weeks before everything went pear shaped. Were Chris Grahams questions asked? Should Jardine and Hannah, employees of Rangers, be questioning their future employers?

Anything on the meeting today?

What time is the meeting? Hope all the questions and answers are reported openly.

IMO gets it right with this, http://t.co/dnL7xPWS By jim Traynor on Jun 20, 12 09:03 AM in rangers IF Rangers were a horse someone would be reaching for a loaded rifle aiming to do the decent and humane thing. Rangers would be shot, put out of their misery. But Rangers aren't some pathetic old flea-ridden nag deliberately left behind by the circus. Apparently they are much worse than that. No sympathy, just poke them with sticks to see if they're still alive. Pity is not to be wasted on them. Pity is for beaten up, clapped out curs, cats, donkeys and monkeys. If they are lucky they'll be cared for by some rich, eccentric old lady or the RSPCA. Rangers are at the mercy of the egocentric, penalty pushing SFA and SPL. And of course the "roll up, roll right up" ringmaster himself, Charles Green. It's impossible to say if his newco have a bright future because it isn't certain they have a future at all even if Green insists the years ahead will be glorious. He's said a lot but much of it has turned out to be little more than bluster and bull. Wait, though. Give Green his due. He said he'd buy the club and he bought it. He promised he'd pull investors out of his top hat and last week he yanked them into view. But unfortunately for him, Rangers fans have still not bought the tickets to his show, even if it is the only one in town. Maybe they're just being polite and standing to one side so that the 16 other investors Green promised can pay in first. They could be there for a while but it shouldn't matter too much because Green's show will go on, won't it? After all, he did point out there would be £30million, perhaps even £40m, in the club's account before the start of the new season. When the fans see the millions rolling in they might warm to Green but the full and unwavering support of Rangers' followers isn't something he'll be taking to the bank in the near future, not unless someone in whom the masses trust leads the way. That person won't be Walter Smith. I think he's had enough. He won't be fronting for anyone. Ever. One time was probably once too often for the old club's former manager, who was tempted to take the lead in a group involving Jim McColl and Douglas Park. People close to Smith told him to let them get on with it but, just as the Blue Knights and one or two of the other bidders had done, they asked for his help. This time he felt obliged. Now he, like every other Rangers fan, might be feeling a little let down. This ill-timed and poorly thought out venture didn't go anything like the plan given to Smith. So only a few days after the euphoria caused by the thought of their former manager rushing to the rescue, the fans came crashing back to earth yesterday. Six days after breaking cover Smith's group decided not to contest, or test, the Green consortium's ownership further. A couple of hours before Green bought Rangers and the assets out of liquidation for £5.5m was far too late because Duff and Phelps and Green had a binding agreement. It couldn't be broken and that's why McColl then had to spend the weekend negotiating with Green and his people, especially Zeus Capital, a London investment bank who appear to be the real powerbrokers. Two of their men, Brian Stockbridge and Imran Ahmad, have been appointed finance director and non-executive director respectively but it's understood Zeus also brought the new chairman, Malcolm Murray, to the table. Is it scribbled on an ancient scroll in some secret place that there must be a Murray connected with Rangers? Apparently this new one is also a Rangers fan. Green will be relieved knowing at least one supporter will be buying a season ticket. But despite the weekend talks there was no sight of a breakthrough and when Green's group suggested joining forces with Smith and his men, that was it. Certainly for Smith. Game over. Neither McColl not Park will team up with the other lot and yesterday's statement saying so was just another black day for all those Rangers fans whose emotions have been lifted and crushed almost daily. They don't want Green but he's right. His is the only show in town. While other bidders dithered or wasted time trying to undermine their opponents instead of getting their own offer in order, Green, or rather Zeus, saw an opportunity to get in and make some money. They insist they are in for the long haul and although it was a decent move to put Murray, a Rangers fan, in as chairman the fans need more persuading before they'll buy season tickets. We might be about to see if Murray is a people person because the fans have heard enough from Green and also know he had it in mind to sack Ally McCoist despite his poor effort to rubbish that Record story. They should know, too, that Green had to eat a large helping of humble pie to get McCoist to stay on for the time being but the harsh reality facing Rangers fans is that Zeus, Green and Murray are running the show. However, the fans are not powerless because despite all the nonsense about tens of millions of pounds set to flow into the new club it's season-ticket revenue which will make or break this regime. The fans must choose but they should stop listening to all the people on the sidelines. The Blue Knights' Paul Murray and Brian Kennedy, Douglas Park and now Jim McColl. And Dave King? What on earth is he trying to do or prove by showing up at Ibrox at this late stage? They claim to be diehards and all insist they have only Rangers' best interests at heart. They didn't want the club to fall into the wrong hands or the hands of people they just didn't fancy. Well, gentlemen, you failed your club. These men spoke and postured but didn't put up. Yet they had ample opportunity and time. They also have the money, more than Green will ever possess yet he's in and they aren't. They can blame no one for that but themselves. They just didn't do enough and it must be so galling for Rangers fans that if even one of these Scottish bidders had stepped forward just more than a year ago Craig Whyte would have been denied. And of course a year of purgatory could have been avoided. But more than 12 months down the line they were still full of not much more than hot air, so let's have no more from them. They didn't put up and now should shut up and let the fans decide. But before that they should try to focus on what it is Zeus, with this character Green as a frontman, want with Rangers when Lloyds just wanted shot of them. What does a London bank want with a club that Lloyds just wanted to be shot of?

From same poster The Lloyds issue is an important one. The club doesn't actually have any money in the bank so an overdraft is essential. If newco can't meet it's costs it'll admin very, very quickly. This is what King was getting at with his "savage cost cutting".

How long before Administration again?

Vidmar??????????

Been confirmed by someone in RFFF.

I also wonder why now. Is King getting the apologies in ready for other things to be revealed? Or is this a charm offensive before 4th July?

Former Rangers director Dave King has said sorry to Scottish football for the EBT scandal which has plunged the game into civil war. On a day when a Walter Smith-led takeover consortium pulled out of a £6million bid to buy the club, King expressed concern over a perceived lack of humility and acceptance of wrongdoing from the club’s powerbrokers. A First Tier Tribunal into the ‘big tax case’ involving the old club’s use of Employee Benefit Trust schemes has yet to deliver a verdict. Speaking after the SPL ruled that Rangers had a case to answer over the alleged use of dual contracts, however, King offered the first concession from an Ibrox figurehead that the club may have gained a competitive advantage over their rivals. ‘I think we should be sorry - and I certainly am sorry,’ King told Sportsmail. ‘We owe both the Rangers fans and the Scottish footballing public an apology. ‘Some of the representations made have betrayed more of a victim status. But I think somebody needs to apologise. ‘Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about. ‘And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so. ‘With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility. ‘And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage. ‘I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that. ‘I know that the Murray Group might not say that, because it might be tantamount to admitting it. ‘But I am happy to say it as a director of the football club. And, having been there for the last couple of days, and getting a sense of the anger and anxiety, that it is absolutely appropriate for the previous regime to be sorry.’ Club chairmen will decide on July 4 if an Ibrox newco should be allowed to play in the top tier next season. Even if the chairmen vote yes, however, SPL sources have warned that the club could still face expulsion if dual contracts were operated by a board of directors on which King was a member for 12 years. Insisting there was no attempt to gain a deliberate competitive advantage from the use of a Murray group EBT, King added: ‘No one on the board, when I was there, would have had any intention of gaining an advantage. ‘But the fact is that I can understand the perception out there now. ‘And the way that Rangers have treated the authorities - instead of having a conversation with them around reparation - has been regrettable. ‘One of the things I would have looked at as part of a consortium in terms of funding is to try and fund them so that they could make some sort of commercial reparation to the other clubs. ‘But let’s do it in a way whereby it is seen to have happened and we come out of it strongly.’ Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2161850/Rangers-crisis-Dave-King-apologises.html#ixzz1yJlbHSGm

No meeting today with RFFF. Meeting them tomorrow.

He seems to be having meetings with RFFF every day. Yet we never hear from RFFF.

There are a lot going to get fed up with this. We know our enemies are out to hurt us. Some are going to say our 'friends' are doing a pretty fair job as well.