Broken Promises - Why Do We Do It?

[CammyF 6,877]

Just seen this on another forum and it highlights how we are missing out on potential money, new fans and good PR exposure ;

 

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One of the areas highlighted was our lack of involvement with tourist organisations not only within Glasgow but around the country. I made sure that i had done my background work, and through contacts that i have due to previous employment within the industry i discovered that groups like City Tours would be more than happy to expand over the river to the Ibrox area.

 

Only problem they have is a continual one : Ibrox Stadium is closed.

 

Anyway,i brought this up and asked about us producing a leaflet, talking to these organistions and getting Rangers/Ibrox on the tourists radar.

 

''Anyone who wants a tour of Ibrox is catered for'' i was assured.

 

I came home after the meeting, and that one comment above all else kept ringing in my head.Next day i rang the 0871 number and got through to ''Stadium Tours''. The following happened :

 

Rangers : ''Hello Stadium Tours can i hlep you''

 

Bluebear : '' Hello there i'm looking to make a block booking for a Stadium Tour''

 

Rangers: '' What day are you wanting the Tour Sir ? ''

 

(I was aware that they only do them on a Friday and a Sunday)

 

Bluebear : ''Next Monday please''

 

Rangers: '' Can't help you we only do them two days a week, not on a monday''

 

Bluebear : '' Listen i operate a Tour company ( false of course) and i have 50 American Tourists arriving on sunday, they're only in Glasgow for two days and some have expressed a wish to visit the Stadium''

 

Rangers: '' I'm sorry, we can't help you'

 

Bluebear : '' listen mate, between you and i i'm a bit of a Rangers man myself and i would also look at taking my party through the Rangers Shop and maybe up to the restuarant for some lunch, you know what these Americans are like with their money''.

 

Rangers: '' We only do Tours on a friday and a sunday''

 

I thanked him, hung up and rang Celtic whose number i had beside me, gave them the exact same story and got this :

 

Celtic : '' No problem mate, listen just give us 24 hours notice and i'll have someone at the front door to greet them, we can also do a discounted lunch''.

 

Who gives a feck i hear many of you say ?

 

I do.

 

Believe me when i say that phone call and response is only scratching the surface.

 

We're losing out big time in many areas within our own City, simply because the people at our Club can't be bothered. This is a Club that is in the financial grubber.

 

Our City is gearing up for the Commonwealth Games and a major influx of Tourists.

 

Are and will Rangers be 'READY' ?

 

I'll let you make up your own minds.

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Cammy F

[Super_Ally 0]

The response is shocking.

 

But it is only really relevant if there is actually a market for tourists wanting to take advantage of this and not just imaginary one's in some guys head.

[CammyF 6,877]

The response is shocking.

 

But it is only really relevant if there is actually a market for tourists wanting to take advantage of this and not just imaginary one's in some guys head.

 

There was (Homecoming Celebrations) and is (Commonwealth Games)...

 

Cammy F

[calscot 0]

I had a look at Wigan season ticket prices and they have slashed them to �£250, however they are in a totally different boat than any other club in the Prem and to Rangers as their stadium is only 70% full at present and their crowds are falling. The prices are to stimulate the fan base and increase the gate.

 

That would not work at Rangers where the attendances are at about 98% capacity and would simply cut our income making us far less competitive, especially against Celtic.

 

Wigan tickets for individual matches also average out at about �£26 which is similar, if not more than at Ibrox.

 

The biggest difference is, however, the TV money with Wigan pulling in about �£30M compared to us at about �£3M.

 

Therefore let's suppose their match income comes to about �£7M then their total income from tickets and TV would be �£37M. Compare that to Rangers with about �£22M from ticket sales and �£3M from TV, giving the combined income of only �£25M.

 

The only way we can even compete with Wigan is a good run in Europe bringing in �£12M which of course we haven't done this year.

 

We may bring in more income elsewhere although being in the EPL helps your advertising income, but our non-player costs are huge compared to Wigan. A few good of examples would be police and stewarding costs, rates and stadium maintenance costs.

 

Wigan have realised that income from gate money at the moment is far less significant than TV income and so are concentrating on increasing their fan base which will bring more money in the future as well as getting them on telly more, and thus more TV money.

 

Potentially temporarily losing a couple of million from �£39M to �£37M (about 5-6%) for long term gain could be good business sense. Where as Rangers would be losing about �£8M from �£25M to �£17M (about 33%) which would have a far greater impact on income for no future gain.

 

With Wigan's less than illustrious history, the fans are happy enough with them just surviving in the Premiership, which is a much wider and achievable target than winning the league and doing well in Europe.

 

It's comparing chalk with cheese.

 

I think a much better comparison would be Tottenham, who fill 96% of their stadium, with an attendance of about 37k and they feel they are a big club with potential of winning something.

 

They have had very little success in recent years and could be said to be doing incredibly badly, yet they are increasing their season tickets next season from �£950 to �£1050, with average match ticket prices around �£45.

 

That is in addition to about �£35M from TV giving them an income of about �£72M. That's about twice as much as us when we have a run Europe.

 

That's the kind of money you need if you want to hang on to your Huttons and Cuellars.

 

But can you imagine paying a grand to watch a team who are mid table strugglers who rarely win anything? Fans also have to pay about �£350 a year to watch games on telly and for that they get about 6 to 8 live games a season.

 

Are they entertaining enough to justify this cost?

 

I think when you compare a large club in England, watching Rangers looks like a complete bargain to me.

 

�£400 plus �£130 for Setanta is still a lot of money and possibly too much for just watching football, but for Rangers to compete at all for half decent players it looks necessary.

 

When everyone else is paying more for the same commodity, you have to compete and to do so you have to raise prices; however, Rangers are not charging as nearly much as many equivalent rivals in England and so are reduced to struggling to put the same quality on the park as the likes of a nothing club (in comparison) like Wigan, who could very easily be a Championship or Div 1 team in 5 years time without a sniff of getting back in the Prem (there are plenty of precedents - Leeds, the Sheffield clubs, Forrest, Leicester, Coventry, Dons, Norwich, Charlton etc, etc, etc).

 

Our fans expect Rangers to win the treble every year with a great run in Europe and anything less is considered, "dross". We were close to winning the quadruple last season and if it wasn't for some dodgy fixturing I think the treble would have been the minimum. Yet it's not good enough.

 

This year we're one point behind, runners up in one cup and favourite semifinalists for the other and combined with out of Europe at the first attempt it seems to be a disaster

and finances are on well dodgy ground.

 

To me there doesn't seem to be any room at all to reduce season ticket prices or even to significantly increase the quality on the park.

 

A part of that is financial mismanagement by the board, which is something I'm always quick to point out but the bigger pressure right now is financial environment which doesn't allow even top Scottish clubs to compete easily.

 

A quick look over Parkhead way, where they have been better at run, the proof is that they are, according to some, the worst Celtic team for a long time.

 

While that is a wild exaggeration if you think back to NIAR, the fact is they are no better than us for the last two seasons despite looking after their finances more prudently and raising more income by building a cheaper, larger stadium, while charging similar prices.

 

Both clubs are basically suffering from the same financial playing field, and the tier of players coming in has to be less, as the likes of poor teams like Spurs can afford to pay twice as much.

 

Celtic are charging at least as much as us, so if we really want to forget competing with them in the near future, then reducing the fee might make sense if it's not considered value for money.

 

But that's the crux of it. In the end we're really mainly competing with Celtic and if they put their prices up (they're frozen this year - well increased by 2% really) then to compete, so do we or they will have a massive advantage.

 

If their fans buy the tickets and ours don't, then again, they will have the advantage.

 

It's all very well with saying you're paying good money for dross, but if more Celtic fans are willing to pay more for the same dross, then they've won, and we will be the poor relations - pure and simple.

[CammyF 6,877]

Rangers are lucky if they have a complete sell out (at Ibrox - domestically) 4 times a season. So youre arguement doesn't add up. You can buy a season ticket for Ibrox at any time during a season. Walk around the RSC Buses any Saturday at Ibrox, or walk around the stadium and you'll pick up a ticket for any game outwith an OF game easily. So again, your supply and demand arguement doesn't add up. Same is true at Parkhead.

 

The price for a 'one off ticket' at Rangers is �£27 (IIRC) plus you're booking charge (which goes straight into SDM pocket, think it is �£1.50 per ticket). We are now also being charged anything between �£5 and �£10 for having tickets delivered to your home (finals, European games etc).

 

Comparing Rangers to Chelsea is a JOKE. Chelsea have LOST a vast majority of their traditional fanbase due to the price of admission at The Bridge. Their true fans pick and chose games and attended sporadically as they can not afford to attend every home game, or purchase season tickets. Once again, you can purchase season tickets for Chelsea throughout the season and can buy tickets for most, if not all games. In fact, I'll try and dig out the last email I received from Chelsea regarding tickets (was for a CL game IIRC). Thats correct, someone who has bought the grand total of 10 tickets (for home games over 5 years) from Chelsea gets emails with the opportunity to purchase tickets for ALL their games, including away European trips. I even had the chance to purchase a CL cup final trip from Chelsea (�£1000 per person for flight, ticket and one night 5 star hotel). See, the fat cats who now outnumber the real Chelsea fans at The Bridge, didn't fancy a trip to Moscow. In fact, they don't follow Chelsea anywhere away from The Bridge, that's left to the real fans.

 

The same is true at most, if not all EPL grounds. I have even seen Man United advertising tickets for games at Old Trafford, something that hasn't happened for years. I suppose in a way it is a good thing, as it shows that fans can no longer, or have decided that they are no longer being 'blind loyal'. Over this season alone, I have been offered tickets to see Chelsea, Arsenal, Sunderland, Newcastle, West Brom and Blackburn. Prices varying from �£45 to �£25. Man City v Hamburg last week was �£5 for adults and �£1 for children. A friend was at an EPL game last week and has told me that Blackburn are offering fans the opportunity to buy tickets for their three remaing games for �£20 for all three games.

 

Also, your arguement that Ibrox is 96% full is flawed. Rangers, like most if not all clubs, include all sold season tickets in their average attendences, even if a large % of these seats aren't taken. This has been most visable at Parkhead this season but lets not kid ourselves that it doesn't happen at Ibrox. So, the average gate of 49,000 isn't really 49,000 it is more likely to be around the 45,000 mark - and falling.

Cammy F

Edited April 21, 2009 by CammyF

[Super_Ally 0]

Also, your arguement that Ibrox is 96% full is flawed. Rangers, like most if not all clubs, include all sold season tickets in their average attendences, even if a large % of these seats aren't taken. This has been most visable at Parkhead this season but lets not kid ourselves that it doesn't happen at Ibrox. So, the average gate of 49,000 isn't really 49,000 it is more likely to be around the 45,000 mark - and falling.

Cammy F

 

That's irrelevant in terms of Calscot's point though. WHether people attend or not, the seat has been paid for.

 

Will read through both posts properly later on. Just scanned through now.

[CammyF 6,877]

That's irrelevant in terms of Calscot's point though. WHether people attend or not, the seat has been paid for.

 

Will read through both posts properly later on. Just scanned through now.

 

No its not - season ticket holders CAN receive �£10 pay back for any games they miss. Supporters clubs can also return any unsold tickets back to the club as well. Calscot's arguement is that due to Ibrox being 'sold out' we pay a premium to guarentee a ticket.

 

Cammy F

[Super_Ally 0]

No its not - season ticket holders CAN receive �£10 pay back for any games they miss. Supporters clubs can also return any unsold tickets back to the club as well. Calscot's arguement is that due to Ibrox being 'sold out' we pay a premium to guarentee a ticket.

 

Cammy F

 

The key word is can. They will only get that �£10 if the club sell all other tickets.

 

The tickets is paid for at the start of the season and realistically isn't available for the vast majority of games. Therefore from the club's point of view, in terms of setting ticekt prices accoridng to supply and demand Calscot's point is correct.

 

I think a lot of people tend to give/sell spare seats to mates. So again the club has collected the money for that seat.

 

If the club do sell on someone's seat (a fairly rare occurence I would imagine) then they get paid twice for it but refund the ST holder a tenner so end up what about �£40-50 up.

 

I'm sure there are some holes that could be picked in Cal's post. I'm not sure I agree with this one. I also think it is difficult to disagree with the overall tone, sentiment and content of Cal's post.

[CammyF 6,877]

It is also worth noting that last season, we received over �£20M for our CL and UEFA Cup run and the same amount in transfer money, yet still posted more debt. So, even given the best run in Europe for over 35 years, generating more money than we ever have in Europe, we still continue to LOSE money hand over fist.

 

That kind of flies in the face of SDM's mantra that as long as we get into Europe, we are OK. I hope I am not the only one seriously worried about our current and future financial state. I think we will continue to bleed money (without explanation) no matter how well we do on the pitch.

 

This will automatically mean that players will have to be sold to bridge the financial gap - selling fringe players won't help, it'll be our 'better' players who will require to be sold. This will equate to it being harder to win the league, harder to qualify for europe and a lesser standard of player on the pitch. Meanwhile, we'll pay top $$ for this.

 

Also, and this is meant with the greatest respect, it is always easier for someone removed from paying �£400 each season to watch Rangers to come up with arguements for those who do to continue doing so. As it is easy for Rangers fans who don't travel to watch Rangers to slate, criticise and slag the Rangers away support. Sometimes being on the frontline opens your eyes and gives you a true understanding of how bad things really are. As an example, there was an unreported attack on Rangers fans at Easter Road on Sunday. Two young Rangers fans attacked by a group of Hibs 'casuals' with one fan having a bottle smashed over his head. This happened as the young fans tried to get to the train station. There was also the chance of serious trouble outside Middletons pub on Easter Road as the Hibs casuals gathered there in search of their Rangers counterparts. As they were getting edgy, they started throwing abuse at 'normal' Rangers fans and were about to be set-upon when the riot police arrived.

 

Cammy F

Edited April 21, 2009 by CammyF

[craig 5,199]

It is also worth noting that last season, we received over �£20M for our CL and UEFA Cup run and the same amount in transfer money, yet still posted more debt. So, even given the best run in Europe for over 35 years, generating more money than we ever have in Europe, we still continue to LOSE money hand over fist.

 

That kind of flies in the face of SDM's mantra that as long as we get into Europe, we are OK. I hope I am not the only one seriously worried about our current and future financial state. I think we will continue to bleed money (without explanation) no matter how well we do on the pitch.

 

This will automatically mean that players will have to be sold to bridge the financial gap - selling fringe players won't help, it'll be our 'better' players who will require to be sold. This will equate to it being harder to win the league, harder to qualify for europe and a lesser standard of player on the pitch. Meanwhile, we'll pay top $$ for this.

 

Cammy F

 

That 20 million was revenue, the profit wouldn't be anywhere near that figure. Profit yes, large profit ? Who knows.

 

We need more "pay-as-you-play" type contracts. To me it looks like the player contracts are what is costing us a significant amount of money. Look at Hemdani. On what, 25k per week ? And not played at all this season. Plus you get players motivated to do well as only by playing well will they be rewarded to the fullest extent of their perfomances.

 

Downside being that it may be more difficult to attract players to those type of contracts.