A question for you. Win everything ugly, or win nowt playing wonderfully!?

[John Barr 0]

JB the point many seem to be missing (or I'm not getting across very well), is that all that any Rangers manager in history has ever been required to do is finish above Celtic and win the championship. Cups and UEFA finals are great, but the "supply of trophies coming through Ibrox" you refer to has to include the championship. This is the reason I'm saying Walter has neither played attractive football nor been a success. It's no issue to me what kind of football we're playing, as long as we win the title. We're still waiting, hopefully this time next week we're celebrating our first league success in four years. It's perhaps harsh terms to judge a manager but them's the stakes at Rangers, always have been and no manager - Smith included - has ever complained about it.

 

Norris i have read over all your argument from the start of this thread to the last and you do make some very good points and the argument is mostly good.

 

I feel if your minds made up it will be very hard to change it, but i hope you can see my point of view on why we should be keeping Smith.

 

The one point you made i found really very harsh on Walter Smith is when you said he hasn't won the league since coming back as manager.

 

I think Calscot covered all my thoughts on that statement anyway, so i won't go through them. But it is an incredibly hard judgement when you consider what he HAS done(which is basically everything except the league..which on Sunday will make your point a mute one anyway if we win at Tannadice).

 

When he came back in January 2007, Murray asked him to get the club back challenging, to make them succesful again and to win the league of Celtic.

 

He has done all of that... come Sunday!(without wishing to jinx it)

 

The league will be won on Sunday as Smith will ensure these players don't mess it up. So in 2 and 1/2 years will have won the league, Probably 2 Scottish Cups(out of 2), 1 league cup( and an appearance in the final of the other he contested), and 1 SPL title(out of 2)(and we all know the exceptional circumstances of the other one he lost), AND a big bonus of an appearance in a major European final(the last being in over a generation ago in 1972).

 

I just feel that in 36 months, whatever way he plays, and whoever plays in whatever position, that is an incredible achievement.

Edited May 19, 2009 by John Barr

[Norris Cole 0]

Norris i have read over all your argument from the start of this thread to the last and you do make some very good points and the argument is mostly good.

 

I feel if your minds made up it will be very hard to change it, but i hope you can see my point of view on why we should be keeping Smith.

 

The one point you made i found really very harsh on Walter Smith is when you said he hasn't won the league since coming back as manager.

 

I think Calscot covered all my thoughts on that statement anyway, so i won't go through them. But it is an incredibly hard judgement when you consider what he HAS done(which is basically everything except the league..which on Sunday will make your point a mute one anyway if we win at Tannadice).

 

I accept what you're saying, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it's not merely my own personal view that Walter has to win the championship as Rangers manager - it's been the bottom line for every Rangers manager since Wilton. Harsh? Maybe, but a fundamental part of being Rangers manager. No-one's arguing that we haven't improved since Le Guen left, but Smith simply must win a championship to be considered truly successful in the role of Rangers manager (Mk II). It does not say in the Rangers manager's job remit: 'Must win Scottish Cups and finish 2nd'.

 

So yes, I can accept he has achieved his objective if we win on Sunday. Let's hope he does. But I'll want him out regardless for a variety of reasons. Changing my mind over Sunday's result would be fickle in the extreme - Smith is a big part of deeper underlying problems at Ibrox and the club is in desperate need of regeneration.

[Super_Ally 0]

I accept what you're saying, but the point I'm trying to get across is that it's not merely my own personal view that Walter has to win the championship as Rangers manager - it's been the bottom line for every Rangers manager since Wilton. Harsh? Maybe, but a fundamental part of being Rangers manager. No-one's arguing that we haven't improved since Le Guen left, but Smith simply must win a championship to be considered successful. It does not say in the Rangers manager's job remit: 'Must win Scottish Cups and finish 2nd'.

 

So yes, I can accept he has achieved his objective if we win on Sunday. Let's hope he does. But I'll want him out regardless for a variety of reasons. Changing my mind over Sunday's result would be fickle in the extreme - Smith is a big part of deeper underlying problems at Ibrox and the club is in desperate need of regeneration.

 

 

That's why I don;t understand the sky tv generation who get so caught up in how we look while we play the game. Win first and foremost, everything else is just window dressing.

[John Barr 0]

Maybe most people will agree now that to win ugly(or so they say is ugly) but to win nonetheless is better than to have someone in who wins the fans over for the nice football.

 

Give me Smith anyday over a freeflowing football purist who wins bugger all.

 

Smith is the champ at this and if he can bring a day like he did to us yesterday, the Scottish cup final next week aswell as the UEFA cup final, Scottish cup final last season and to lose the league in infortunate circumstances...Not bad atall for 2 and 1/2 seasons work atall.