A question for you. Win everything ugly, or win nowt playing wonderfully!?

[Norris Cole 0]

That's an incredible accusation. He's only had ONE chance to win it and any reasonable Rangers fan knows why that didn't quite work out.

 

Criticising a manager for not winning the title in ONE season when he almost won the quadruple but for very unfair circumstances and what could be described as cheating by the opposition shows a pathetic understanding of football.

 

Talk about glory hunters, this is in the extreme...

 

If you can't take a season like last season I don't know how you have the cheek to call yourself a fan. That just describes a hanger on who only comes out the woodwork when we win the league.

 

So I can't take this season's 37 games into account? Inverness at home? Aberdeen away playing for a draw? Same at the Piggery when Celtic offered nothing?

 

If we win the league it'll be in spite of Walter, but then I've stated that previously on more than one occasion so why you're coming out with the same tired old insults is lost on me.

 

Glory hunter? Hanger on? This climax to last season you just love talking about - were you there at Pittodrie singing yourself hoarse after we'd gone 2-0 down and all was lost?

 

Walter's worse crime seems to be losing the league on the last day while winning a cup double having a decent CL run by Scottish standards, and getting to the UEFA cup final. That's hardly a complete failure even if you disregard the circumstances.

 

I really can't stand the ignorance of so-called fans who think if we don't win the league EVERY year then we are failures. NOT ONE team wins every season and I thought we were the best in the world at it - which Walter contributed to.

 

I really hope you judge your own results so harshly but I find it laughable that you would.

 

Just you keep on repeating yourself calscot.

 

So if we win the league on Sunday, are you going to eat humble pie? I doubt it, you'll be celebrating like you won it singlehandedly yourself.

 

Seeing as my views on Smith (see below) won't change regardless of the outcome, humble pie won't come into it.

 

If we lose, I'll bet you'll just be Mr Smug and calling for Walter's head.

 

You really do have a selective memory when it comes to my previous posts don't you? For the avoidance of any doubt though, I'll state again that I've been calling for his head all season, and will continue to do so even he if he wins the double and offers to pay off my mortgage.

 

As for being 'Mr Smug' depending on Sunday's outcome - I could level the same accusation at yourself, but then we clearly have very different mentalities.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Norris Cole

[calscot 0]

So I can't take this season's 37 games into account? Inverness at home? Aberdeen away playing for a draw? Same at the Piggery when Celtic offered nothing?

 

In case it had escaped you're notice, we're top of the league. As for Celtic offering nothing, that is so glib and shows very little understanding of football. If Celtic were offering nothing, doesn't the way Rangers were playing have and effect on that? It easy to criticise when it's not you on the pitch trying to win the game. If you've ever played competitive football you should know it's never that easy, especially against the current champions.

 

If we win the league it'll be in spite of Walter, but then I've stated that previously on more than one occasion so why you're coming out with the same tired old insults is lost on me.

 

In spite of a manager that has taken it to the last day in every season he's managed Rangers compared to the last three managers who have all finished 17 points or more behind? What tosh.

 

Just you keep on repeating yourself calscot.

 

I'm repeating a reply, why would that be? Work it out and you might get a glimpse of the irony.

 

Seeing as my views on Smith (see below) won't change regardless of the outcome, humble pie won't come into it.

 

And you expect me to be surprised? You'll have to find another stick to beat him with, and I'm not looking forward to the outlandish claims you'll come up with.

 

You really do have a selective memory when it comes to my previous posts don't you? For the avoidance of any doubt though, I'll state again that I've been calling for his head all season, and will continue to do so even he if he wins the double and offers to pay off my mortgage.

 

Repeating yourself perhaps?

 

As for being 'Mr Smug' depending on Sunday's outcome - I could level the same accusation at yourself, but then we clearly have very different mentalities.

 

You're going to be accusing me of being smug if we win the league? Just what kind of accusation is that? Yes I will be, me and a few hundred thousand others. Some of us will be able to enjoy it without talking out the side of our mouths.

 

But in the end you just don't get it do you. I have no problem with people who have a genuine axe to grind, but you have to be as unbalanced in the extreme to moan about something that doesn't make sense.

 

If your complaint was after four years of Walter you might have a point, but ONE, and while we're two points ahead with one game to play? That's just so ridiculous, it's hard to let someone off with such superciliousness without comment.

Edited May 18, 2009 by calscot

[Norris Cole 0]

You're going to be accusing me of being smug if we win the league?

 

No. The point I was trying to get across is, that's where you and I differ.

 

That's just so ridiculous, it's hard to let someone off with such superciliousness without comment.

 

superciliousness (Noun) - the trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior; condescension, disdainfulness, arrogance, haughtiness, hauteur, high-handedness, lordliness - overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors

 

 

Cough, cough...

[Wija 0]

What the fook has got you 2 riled... now shut up and stop whining.

[Gribz 743]

I felt exactly the same way after watching that game that day. Another fantastic performance (at least in my opinion) was when we drew 2-2 at home to Dundee Utd. Strange I would consider it such a fine performance - but if it was not for resolute defending and hitting the woodwork 3 or 4 times as well as some bad misses, we would have stuck 10 past Utd that day.

 

Thats the game that sticks in my mind. It was the best Rangers draw ive ever seen. How we didnt score 8 in that game is beyond me.

[John Barr 0]

Ok, thats an incredibly good read contained within this topic.

 

Obviously there is a difference of opinion, but the reason i was asking the question in the first place is because i thought most, if not all of us would want to win ugly if need be.

 

So, if thats the case then why are so many people beating Walter Smith into leaving this club when he clearly is an expert at winning ugly(because the fans and pros have labelled him as the master of anti- football)?

 

When Smith came back as manager i was over the moon, but slowly i began to get disillusioned with the poor tactics, out of posistioned players, and the inability to kill off seemingly worse teams than us.

 

But, the longer this campaign has went on i have seen he is an absolute geniusat doing all the 'anti football' and, at the same time, supplying the fans with trophies, finals, and results when needed in most cases if there are no exceptional circumstances.

 

And, i also wanted to know if the fans would sacrifice this for the sake of changing it for a manager who can get the team playing well(as that appears to be one of the main complaints against Smith), but there may not be a supply of trophies coming through Ibrox.

 

Now, the league championship may be coming home and if it does, you really do have to raise a glass to the master of all this, winning us what we asked for in just 2 and a half years during a time when Celtic were totally dominant in Scottish football.

 

Is this a master class in genius we are witnessing here?

 

Now, i fear Smith may get us the title and say 'i'm off', 'i've had it with this sniping' and we may well find ourselves up shit creek looking for someone with half the knowledge he has, and we won't be able to find him.

 

If he does win the league in such a short time with a squad that looks incapable of winning any league title, and with having to constantly duck and dive to aviod criticism, i just feel we are going to see that Walter was exactly what we needed but it will be too late and he'll be gone.

 

This is coming from an initial fan of Smiths who turned unsure of him, particularly during the winter of this campaign, and i am now thinking he may have just been doing the job we were asking him to do in the first place.

 

I hope this makes sense.

Edited May 19, 2009 by John Barr

[calscot 0]

Walter has pretty much done what he came here to do, make us competitive again. So far he has achieved that in all competitions bar one. He started off with a 17 point deficit and still took the league to two games to go. He then lost the league on the last day of the season and goes into the last day of this season two points ahead. He's been in the final of every domestic cup he's entered, winning two and losing one, and looking good for the last, and done well in the CL one season in the so called "group of death", and finally going onto a UEFA cup final.

 

We ARE competitive. IF we win the double it will be 4 trophies in 2 seasons where he could realistic win something, and Euro cup final. That's pretty nifty even by Rangers incredibly high standards even ignoring the factors of last year which hindered us in the title.

 

The football is not the prettiest but it's still the most enjoyable of the last 6 years, in a time when we simply cannot sign the quality of player we used to. The only time I remember us every playing better football was when we were the richest club in the UK when English teams were banned from Europe and when we almost bankrupted the club to pay for players we couldn't afford.

 

Walter doesn't take us to great footballing heights but he's always there scrapping until the very bitter end and (if the season turns out well) winning more than his fair share.

 

Now the question is who could replace him? Previous, realistic suggestions for our manager have included the likes of Strachan and Burley - would anyone want them now?

 

Do we really want to take a risk with only half proven managers such as Davis, Mowbray (an ex celt) or Levein (who seems to hate us)?

 

Should we stoop as low as the two Jimmy's or McGhee (another ex celt)?

 

Should we go back in time again and re-appoint Souness?

 

The list of candidates is hardly exciting especially when our future spending is almost definitely going to be modest.

 

By far the biggest possible name we could have brought here in the last 6 years was PLG - it was an amazing coup, but then he was so poor at adjusting to Scottish football and Rangers he isn't even slightly worthy of lacing Smith's brogues.

 

PLG clearly showed there are no guarantees by bringing in an illustrious outsider, but Walter has done what he says on his tin.

 

I'd much prefer we were highly competitive in every competition and maybe losing a few at the final hurdle than wait around watching us finish 30 points behind and out of both cups really early, while we dream of when our manager will turn it around and have us go stratospheric - when there is no real indication that that will ever happen.

 

Should we give time to man who looks clueless or should we give time to the guy who's always there or there abouts? If people had faith in Le Guen then why not in Walter who is doing so well right from the start?

 

If he wins the double, will he not have improved from last year? Can he not improve with more time?

 

I don't think WS is the best manager we could have, but he seems to be the best for the job that we can afford at this time and the one who the evidence points to being most likely to have us consistently competing.

 

I think we need him for another season or two while we sort our finances out and become a more attractive proposition for a bigger name. To replace him with any of those suggested above would be a huge gamble that I can't see that we can afford to lose.

[Norris Cole 0]

When Smith came back as manager i was over the moon, but slowly i began to get disillusioned with the poor tactics, out of posistioned players, and the inability to kill off seemingly worse teams than us.

 

But, the longer this campaign has went on i have seen he is an absolute geniusat doing all the 'anti football' and, at the same time, supplying the fans with trophies, finals, and results when needed in most cases if there are no exceptional circumstances.

 

And, i also wanted to know if the fans would sacrifice this for the sake of changing it for a manager who can get the team playing well(as that appears to be one of the main complaints against Smith), but there may not be a supply of trophies coming through Ibrox.

 

JB the point many seem to be missing (or I'm not getting across very well), is that all that any Rangers manager in history has ever been required to do is finish above Celtic and win the championship. Cups and UEFA finals are great, but the "supply of trophies coming through Ibrox" you refer to has to include the championship. This is the reason I'm saying Walter has neither played attractive football nor been a success. It's no issue to me what kind of football we're playing, as long as we win the title. We're still waiting, hopefully this time next week we're celebrating our first league success in four years. It's perhaps harsh terms to judge a manager but them's the stakes at Rangers, always have been and no manager - Smith included - has ever complained about it.

[Norris Cole 0]

Walter has pretty much done what he came here to do, make us competitive again.

 

Of course he's made us competitive again. But the question is how long do we accept being "competitive" without winning the league? It's a question for Murray because, regardless of my own personal views, if we don't pull it off on Sunday our custodian will be facing some difficult questions from an awful lot of unhappy Bears. Whether people on here think it's right or not it's what will happen.

 

The football is not the prettiest but it's still the most enjoyable of the last 6 years, in a time when we simply cannot sign the quality of player we used to. The only time I remember us every playing better football was when we were the richest club in the UK when English teams were banned from Europe and when we almost bankrupted the club to pay for players we couldn't afford.

 

Walter doesn't take us to great footballing heights but he's always there scrapping until the very bitter end and (if the season turns out well) winning more than his fair share.

 

Funnily enough I've never felt the need to constantly criticise Walter for his style of football. We have poor players by our historical standards. However you don't need to play like Brazil 1970 to win the SPL in 2009. The players (and officials) must take their share of the blame, but Walter is the first Rangers manager in living memory - perhaps ever - to play on the break with one up front against non-OF domestic opposition and play for the draw.

 

Whether you, I, or those on this board think it's fair or not, the fact is that not winning the league is a monkey on his back and he'll feel the heat like the rest of the club if we fail again.

 

I think we need him for another season or two while we sort our finances out and become a more attractive proposition for a bigger name. To replace him with any of those suggested above would be a huge gamble that I can't see that we can afford to lose.

 

Another way of looking at it is a title win this season could form the start of the rebuild. Wonder how Souness's South African consortium is coming along...

[John Barr 0]

Walter has pretty much done what he came here to do, make us competitive again. So far he has achieved that in all competitions bar one. He started off with a 17 point deficit and still took the league to two games to go. He then lost the league on the last day of the season and goes into the last day of this season two points ahead. He's been in the final of every domestic cup he's entered, winning two and losing one, and looking good for the last, and done well in the CL one season in the so called "group of death", and finally going onto a UEFA cup final.

 

We ARE competitive. IF we win the double it will be 4 trophies in 2 seasons where he could realistic win something, and Euro cup final. That's pretty nifty even by Rangers incredibly high standards even ignoring the factors of last year which hindered us in the title.

 

The football is not the prettiest but it's still the most enjoyable of the last 6 years, in a time when we simply cannot sign the quality of player we used to. The only time I remember us every playing better football was when we were the richest club in the UK when English teams were banned from Europe and when we almost bankrupted the club to pay for players we couldn't afford.

 

Walter doesn't take us to great footballing heights but he's always there scrapping until the very bitter end and (if the season turns out well) winning more than his fair share.

 

Now the question is who could replace him? Previous, realistic suggestions for our manager have included the likes of Strachan and Burley - would anyone want them now?

 

Do we really want to take a risk with only half proven managers such as Davis, Mowbray (an ex celt) or Levein (who seems to hate us)?

 

Should we stoop as low as the two Jimmy's or McGhee (another ex celt)?

 

Should we go back in time again and re-appoint Souness?

 

The list of candidates is hardly exciting especially when our future spending is almost definitely going to be modest.

 

By far the biggest possible name we could have brought here in the last 6 years was PLG - it was an amazing coup, but then he was so poor at adjusting to Scottish football and Rangers he isn't even slightly worthy of lacing Smith's brogues.

 

PLG clearly showed there are no guarantees by bringing in an illustrious outsider, but Walter has done what he says on his tin.

 

I'd much prefer we were highly competitive in every competition and maybe losing a few at the final hurdle than wait around watching us finish 30 points behind and out of both cups really early, while we dream of when our manager will turn it around and have us go stratospheric - when there is no real indication that that will ever happen.

 

Should we give time to man who looks clueless or should we give time to the guy who's always there or there abouts? If people had faith in Le Guen then why not in Walter who is doing so well right from the start?

 

If he wins the double, will he not have improved from last year? Can he not improve with more time?

 

I don't think WS is the best manager we could have, but he seems to be the best for the job that we can afford at this time and the one who the evidence points to being most likely to have us consistently competing.

 

I think we need him for another season or two while we sort our finances out and become a more attractive proposition for a bigger name. To replace him with any of those suggested above would be a huge gamble that I can't see that we can afford to lose.

 

Absolutely fantasticly put Calscot.

 

I tried to put it the way i felt it was at present, but you have bettered that with your post there.

 

I couldn't have put it better myself.

 

And, the point you raise about who would we bring in is very daunting indeed.

 

We seem to have one of the best ever managers in Scottish(if not British) football at our door and yet most seem to want rid of him.

 

However, i do feel it is too late to convince the man to stay as he does seem tire dof it all and i'm now virtually one hundred per cent sure that Rangers supporters will look back a year or 5 years from now and they will WISH that they had the man as their manager at that time.

 

I'm not a Smith purist, and i have only begun to realise we should be breaking our backs to keep the man, and to persuasde him to do a Sir Alex. But as seems to be the tradition with us, we will let our best players and managers go and then start to wish we had done more at the time to keep him.