Gerspride conference, Sat 14 nov

[craig 5,199]

I honestly do appreciate all of these things Frankie and the whole unity issue has been discussed extensively and directly over the last 2-3 days. I do hope we can find ways forward.

 

With no disrespect to anyone involved the easiest way to address the unity issue would be for those within the Trust who are perceived to have created the divide in the first place (whether the perception is right or wrong is almost irrelevant at this stage - so long as the perception is there it is real) to tender their resignations and let someone else step in who could actually promote unity from a clean slate.

 

I am not saying this is the right or wrong way to go about it but it would remove some of the historical stigma attached to the RST.

 

How that would impact the efforts though I simply dont know as some of these people may be the ones with the contacts, I dont know.

[rbr 1,247]

With no disrespect to anyone involved the easiest way to address the unity issue would be for those within the Trust who are perceived to have created the divide in the first place (whether the perception is right or wrong is almost irrelevant at this stage - so long as the perception is there it is real) to tender their resignations and let someone else step in who could actually promote unity from a clean slate.

 

I am not saying this is the right or wrong way to go about it but it would remove some of the historical stigma attached to the RST.

 

How that would impact the efforts though I simply dont know as some of these people may be the ones with the contacts, I dont know.

 

 

Craig I dont think simply changing the elected members would go far enough or even achieve anything perception wise , there are far too many different supporters factions , if you ask any fan at Ibrox who doesn't visit an online site they will just give you a very baffled look , we are far to fragmented and have to come together under one common aim , and that is Rangers , how that is achieved I do not know but the main groups must face up to this and do it pronto

[craig 5,199]

Why are posters putting it about that Rangers are in immediate mortal danger, when they are anything but.

 

To continue the theme.... care to post your facts regarding this ?

 

Hearts debt by comparison is �£38+ million and they are hardly in the same financial league as us. I do not see anyone preparing obituaries for them.

 

Hearts are also being underwritten by the owner of the very bank they owe that money to. A very subtle but also very important difference to the situation at Rangers. Hearts owe that cash to Vlad's bank. Vlad effectively makes their financing decision. So as long as Vlad (and his bank) owns Hearts then the likelihood that he calls in the loan from his own football club is relatively slim.

 

We, on the other hand, have an arms length banking relationship. very important difference.

 

As stated bludell, you have substantiated nothing.

 

Have you even bothered to take a look at MIH accounts ? They are there for all to see. Before continuing to suggest nothing has been substantiated you might want to consider that a very brief look at MIH financial statements will tell you what MIH had to pay within the year in loans. It isnt difficult. Go take a look.

[craig 5,199]

Craig I dont think simply changing the elected members would go far enough or even achieve anything perception wise , there are far too many different supporters factions , if you ask any fan at Ibrox who doesn't visit an online site they will just give you a very baffled look , we are far to fragmented and have to come together under one common aim , and that is Rangers , how that is achieved I do not know but the main groups must face up to this and do it pronto

 

You make a very good point rbr.

 

In fact in Bermuda one of the main political parties just recently has had to completely rethink the way it operates due to historical stigmatism as being the "white party" - the country's voting populace is 60% black and 40% white so each election that stigmatism gets brought back up.

 

Ultimately unless the "white party" disbands and reinvents itself then they could be in the political wilderness for years to come.

 

Could it be the RST needs to reinvent itself ? Could it be that a new entity is born to try to bring everyone under the one umbrella ? (That will mortify those folks who think we already have too many representations).

 

The problem is that time is, IMO, still of the essence and I dont know if we have the time to resolve the historical issues. Another thing is that we are talking about the RST, Association and Assembly - how many fans do they collectively represent and how many would be able and/or willing to invest and to what extent ?

 

It is important that the word get out to the supporters as a whole. Would it make sense to have flyers placed on seats at Ibrox on match day explaining some of the items on the agenda (when they are concrete enough to be able to be provided) ?

 

The club have already said they are looking for buyers and have already stated the need for the bank and its facilities but that we want to rid ourself of that reliance over time. Do the majority of fans understand what is being said between the lines ?

[Union City Blue 0]

Very well put UCB , on another point but hopefully still relative to this thread , as a lifetime member of the trust that didn't make the last AGM , at this critical time do you agree that getting the message across not only to RST , Assembly , Assosciation members , but the whole support is an absolute must and what means are being put in place to do this if any , also the talk about a " figurehead " to face up the campaign is getting alot of press , do you also agree that whoever this may be they must be in it for the long haul and not to give it a bit of glitz or glammer . Sorry this is turning into Prime Minister's question's :)

 

Hi rbr.

 

Yes, I completely agree and mass communication is essential. Being internet users ourselves means we are sometimes drawn to on-line but (and I can't quantify this whatsoever) my guess is that looking around Ibrox and talking to people I know, the majority of Rangers fans are not even members of forums.

 

Regardless of how many people sites claim to have registered, the active number of unique, regular participants across the best-known Rangers sites must be about 1000 - 1500 - 2000 at absolute TOPS (although I personally don't believe it's anywhere near that high). Friendly lurkers are there too, but they're impossible to guage. * I'd like to hear any other estimates on these figs btw, just our of curiosity *

 

This means that (outside of membership of 3 widely-recognised fans' groups) that the bulk of the target audience is somewhere else; reading papers, watching TV, and listening to the radio. Thankfully, the ability to generate positive interest in the tabloid & 'quality' media has never been higher, as evidenced by the broad and very credible coverage of Gerspride - and we have very good personal relationships with an incredible range of fantastic 'friends'. In fact, several unsolicited offers to help from WITHIN the media has been one of the most encouraging things we've seen in the last couple of weeks!

 

The figurehead(s) issue will be important, and I completely take your point on board about the long-haul. Equally important though, is the message, the meaning and the mechanics behind it.

 

Cheers mate, we are making very good progress.

[spanner 0]

To continue the theme.... care to post your facts regarding this ?

 

 

 

Hearts are also being underwritten by the owner of the very bank they owe that money to. A very subtle but also very important difference to the situation at Rangers. Hearts owe that cash to Vlad's bank. Vlad effectively makes their financing decision. So as long as Vlad (and his bank) owns Hearts then the likelihood that he calls in the loan from his own football club is relatively slim.

 

We, on the other hand, have an arms length banking relationship. very important difference.

 

 

 

Have you even bothered to take a look at MIH accounts ? They are there for all to see. Before continuing to suggest nothing has been substantiated you might want to consider that a very brief look at MIH financial statements will tell you what MIH had to pay within the year in loans. It isnt difficult. Go take a look.

 

The reported words of the chairman.

The survival of the club is not in doubt. There is no question about the club going into administration. Nobody involved in the discussions I have had over the last three months wants to play poker with the future of Rangers Football Club with Rangers being the stakes. One of the things we have done in the last three months is extended our relationship, our credit facility, with the bank. They have been quite collaborative with respect of moving forward. We have had clean audit opinion as a going concern so we can move forward.

 

Hearts link. http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/spl/Hearts39-debt-reaches-37m-after.3902790.jp

 

I am led to believe that MIH was granted an extension to the publishing date of the accounts, to allow them to restructure the debt, who knows it might even be true.

 

Whatever else is being put about RFC is a viable going concern, of that the chairman has no doubt.

[Union City Blue 0]

Why urgently, you are making a drama out of paper talk, are you implying that Rangers are in immediate danger of financial meltdown, Martin Bains statement in the accounts says very differently. It appears a lot of glory hunters are looking for their 15 minutes of fame out of this media driven and invented drama, Rangers FC are in no danger despite the doom merchants.

The bottom line is very simple either MIH and Rangers by assocciation are trading legally or they are not, either solvent or insolvent, solvent being the obvious answer, investment is always welcome in any business but we wont go bust tomorrow or next year if we don't get it. The club as always will go in the direction plotted by SDM, somethings never change despite the window dressing.

 

Sorry Spanner, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

My bullet points from AJ were not paper-talk - I heard them with my own ears during his phone interview on the BBC website with Chick Young. I say "urgently" because January is only weeks away, and June is not that far behind. And also because we have no offers to buy the club and we know that these things take time.

 

Your belief in SDM is as remarkable as it is astounding and I just don't buy it. If I'm wrong, I will re-appear and apologise but I really don't expect to.

[Frankie 8,151]

spanner:

 

Obviously there is a lot of different spin and comment going on which isn't easy to believe - be it from fan reps, Alistair Johnston, Martin Bain or Lloyds. I don't know who is right so what we have is a situation where we're being asked to buy into solving a problem that doesn't yet exist officially. That's not to say it doesn't (surely the finance rumours can't all be wrong but surely AJ wouldn't be setting himself up for a fall in January either) but we need more to make up our minds.

 

On December 7th is the Rangers AGM. That is where we can all have our say of the club (and Donald Muir) - possibly not in as open/transparent manner as we'd like but it's a start. At that event we have to ensure we're all asking the right questions and taking the debate in the correct direction. We can do that individually and/or we can use our websites/fan groups/projects to apply concentrated pressure. From the answers there we can then plan more effectively.

 

As such, if I were the RST or the Assembly or the Association or a RSC secretary or a website owner, I'd be contacting each other to ensure the correct questions were asked. I'd be immediately and publicly asking for an extended AGM to ensure everyone can have their say. From this initial consultation and the AGM perhaps a larger scale, more open/neutral event could be organised which concentrated fully on the ownership issue to information share, invite feedback and hopefully flush out the kind of people required to front such an important time for our support. These people may not get involved via the RST or the Assembly but they may be more interested if it wasn't limited to 'official' fan groups.

 

In the mean-time I'd urge everyone to avoid petty arguments as what is often lost is that we're all Rangers fans. Disagreements aside that shouldn't be forgotten so let's keep the debate healthy, and not waste energy fighting each other as opposed to the real battles that may be upon us.

[spanner 0]

Sorry Spanner, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

My bullet points from AJ were not paper-talk - I heard them with my own ears during his phone interview on the BBC website with Chick Young. I say "urgently" because January is only weeks away, and June is not that far behind. And also because we have no offers to buy the club and we know that these things take time.

 

Your belief in SDM is as remarkable as it is astounding and I just don't buy it. If I'm wrong, I will re-appear and apologise but I really don't expect to.

 

OK UCB, no harm done, my belief in SDM extends only to his undoubted ability to wrong foot everyone, he does appear to be the ultimate Ringmaster. You could well be right and I could be very wrong, somewhere in the middle is no answer, I respect your views as honestly held and appreciate your replies, even if we differ I think we all would like to see everyone come out of this happy, would be a nice Christmas present.

[Union City Blue 0]

With no disrespect to anyone involved the easiest way to address the unity issue would be for those within the Trust who are perceived to have created the divide in the first place (whether the perception is right or wrong is almost irrelevant at this stage - so long as the perception is there it is real) to tender their resignations and let someone else step in who could actually promote unity from a clean slate.

 

I am not saying this is the right or wrong way to go about it but it would remove some of the historical stigma attached to the RST.

 

How that would impact the efforts though I simply dont know as some of these people may be the ones with the contacts, I dont know.

 

Hi Craig,

 

I typed out a long response there, but I've deleted it. As things stand, the Trust has set its course and signalled its intentions, in concert with the Assembly and the Association. It is going ahead mate.

 

Now, if people want to stand on the sidelines shouting "resign! disunity!" that's up to them and they (and everyone else) can make their own minds up on whether that helps or hinders Rangers. And on whether it unifies or otherwise.

 

What we have is a broad and growing bunch of Rangers fans who believe in supporter ownership and the need for action. That is the common ground and is what we should build on.