Gerspride conference, Sat 14 nov

[Zappa 0]

Right, look at this chart of the 'top five' leagues from 07/08. I'm trying to imagine what a column for Scotland would look like on this chart. It's a scary thought.

 

 

Read the full article here - Europe's football finances 2007/08

 

What the chart shows is that 4 of the top 5 leagues are all each making over �£1bn p/a in revenue outwith their matchday revenues. I'd be very surprised if the total annual revenue of the SPL clubs outwith matchday revenue was over �£200m.

[Zappa 0]

Here's another interesting article with 07/08 facts & figures specifically for the EPL. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8078533.stm#wages

[maineflyer 0]

Right, look at this chart of the 'top five' leagues from 07/08. I'm trying to imagine what a column for Scotland would look like on this chart. It's a scary thought.

 

 

Read the full article here - Europe's football finances 2007/08

 

What the chart shows is that 4 of the top 5 leagues are all each making over �£1bn p/a in revenue outwith their matchday revenues. I'd be very surprised if the total annual revenue of the SPL clubs outwith matchday revenue was over �£200m.

It paints a very sobering picture.

[rbr 1,247]

You cannot compete on anything like a level playing field when you look at those figures , what is even worse is the money is not evenly split in each league with the top clubs getting astronomical amounts compared to us .

 

This only highlights the absolute necessity of good coaching , even better scouting and a great youth set up , now how many of these do we tick !!!!!!

[maineflyer 0]

You cannot compete on anything like a level playing field when you look at those figures , what is even worse is the money is not evenly split in each league with the top clubs getting astronomical amounts compared to us .

 

This only highlights the absolute necessity of good coaching , even better scouting and a great youth set up , now how many of these do we tick !!!!!!

 

Yes, and I think we really do need to turn our back on the world of these five super-leagues. We can't compete and we need to stop judging ourselves in those particular mirrors. Domestic aspirations only from now on if we're to retain any self-respect. The current strategy only leads to madness.

[Zappa 0]

Yes, and I think we really do need to turn our back on the world of these five super-leagues. We can't compete and we need to stop judging ourselves in those particular mirrors. Domestic aspirations only from now on if we're to retain any self-respect. The current strategy only leads to madness.

Those stats are really important to the discussion of fan ownership of Rangers FC though because the revenue outside matchday revenue for Rangers is peanuts. Our main source of income is from matchday revenue which of course includes the season tickets, whereas all of these top leagues are the opposite with their main income coming from outwith their matchday incomes. The long and the short of it is that Rangers will (IMO) struggle to survive never mind improve under a fan ownership model in Scotland & the SPL. The income streams just aren't there. It's no use saying 200k fans went to Manchester, look how big a support we have. That's irrelevant while we're still playing in the SPL with extremely poor income from broadcasting rights & commercial sponsorship, which Rangers really don't make a great deal of money from. I'm sure Bluedell or Craig will correct me on this if I'm wrong.

[maineflyer 0]

Those stats are really important to the discussion of fan ownership of Rangers FC though because the revenue outside matchday revenue for Rangers is peanuts. Our main source of income is from matchday revenue which of course includes the season tickets, whereas all of these top leagues are the opposite with their main income coming from outwith their matchday incomes. The long and the short of it is that Rangers will (IMO) struggle to survive never mind improve under a fan ownership model in Scotland & the SPL. The income streams just aren't there. It's no use saying 200k fans went to Manchester, look how big a support we have. That's irrelevant while we're still playing in the SPL with extremely poor income from broadcasting rights & commercial sponsorship, which Rangers really don't make a great deal of money from. I'm sure Bluedell or Craig will correct me on this if I'm wrong.

 

I guess fan ownership can only be judged in financial terms if you first have a vision of where your spend is going to be. If we want to keep on aspiring to be competitive in Europe then I think you're right. However, with the rest of the SPL also greatly diminished and the cost of being competitive in the SPL correspondingly reduced, fan ownership could maybe work at a very severe pinch.

 

However, I'm not a great fan of this emotion-led charge for fan ownership of Rangers, particularly in view of who appears to be leading that charge at present. I would greatly prefer a partial-ownership scheme, with fan voting rights cast in constitutional stone on certain strategic matters, and room allowed for significant majority investor shareholding.

Edited November 24, 2009 by maineflyer

[pete 2,499]

I agree Fan ownership is not an option we need a millionaire like David Murray to take the club forward.

[Zappa 0]

I agree Fan ownership is not an option we need a millionaire like David Murray to take the club forward.

I'm not suggesting that it's not an option though pete. What I'm highlighting & questioning is whether it's the right option for the club given that the SPL broadcasting & commercial revenue streams are absolutely abysmal. I saw you say on another thread that this might just be the worst Rangers team you've ever seen, but as it currently stands we aren't turning a profit without CL football. So my question is: What can we expect our team's financial position to be like if we have majority fan ownership of the club by 2011, have had to sell some of our best players including promising youngsters like Fleck & Wilson to clear debt, aren't playing in Europe, still aren't making much more than peanuts from broadcasting rights, don't have dominance in the SPL any more & have to fight much harder to remain in the top 3 or 4. The list goes on tbh because I fail to see any rosy future at all for our club under fan ownership in the current climate of Scottish football & playing in the SPL. If we were playing in a league where Rangers were receiving �£30m+ every year in TV broadcasting rights alone, I'd be all for it, but the reality of our situation & other Scottish clubs is terrible. We are literally the peasants of European football down there struggling to compete with eastern block countries & western European countries far smaller in size & historical footballing stature than Scotland. We need to get real & try to figure out if fan ownership of Rangers is the best thing for the survival, improvement & ultimately, longevity of Rangers Football Club, because what's best for the fans is NOT the same thing as what's best for our club & there needs to be a clarification on that IMO.

[maineflyer 0]

I'm not suggesting that it's not an option though pete. What I'm highlighting & questioning is whether it's the right option for the club given that the SPL broadcasting & commercial revenue streams are absolutely abysmal. I saw you say on another thread that this might just be the worst Rangers team you've ever seen, but as it currently stands we aren't turning a profit without CL football. So my question is: What can we expect our team's financial position to be like if we have majority fan ownership of the club by 2011, have had to sell some of our best players including promising youngsters like Fleck & Wilson to clear debt, aren't playing in Europe, still aren't making much more than peanuts from broadcasting rights, don't have dominance in the SPL any more & have to fight much harder to remain in the top 3 or 4. The list goes on tbh because I fail to see any rosy future at all for our club under fan ownership in the current climate of Scottish football & playing in the SPL. If we were playing in a league where Rangers were receiving �£30m+ every year in TV broadcasting rights alone, I'd be all for it, but the reality of our situation & other Scottish clubs is terrible. We are literally the peasants of European football down there struggling to compete with eastern block countries & western European countries far smaller in size & historical footballing stature than Scotland. We need to get real & try to figure out if fan ownership of Rangers is the best thing for the survival, improvement & ultimately, longevity of Rangers Football Club, because what's best for the fans is NOT the same thing as what's best for our club & there needs to be a clarification on that IMO.

 

A lot of the current Rangers support have their football roots in the Murray NIAR era. The next generation will be completely different and will have to find reasons other than success to bond themselves to the club. If we continue the current decline, the Rangers support will eventually and inevitably diminish too. Fan ownership in such circumstances could become an inescapable liability rather than a means of improvement.