Gerspride conference, Sat 14 nov

[Tannochsidebear 2,322]

TB, thanks for that informative post.

 

It's obvious that the RST does have an image problem in the support, partly shown by MF's post, and partly shown by the general apathy (at best) by the non-internet fans.

 

Do the RST board show signs of acknowledging and addressing this issue as it's going to difficult to get the punters involved if it is not?

 

edit: I see you have addressed the first part of this, but perhaps not the second.

 

It's OK to say that they are the only group trying it, but if they can't appeal to the masses then there could be problems. We only get one shot at this.

 

The RST board certainly acknowledge the apathy and their image problem, and of course they cannot really do much else but give assurances of their intentions, and point to the united message coming from them, the Assembly and Association in recent weeks.

 

I think it really comes down to wether guys like yourself, a former RST board member, can convince yourself to put the past behind you, get behind people you dont trust, and back a scheme to save our club for the longer term good.

 

We can all hide behind past clashes and mistrusts, dislikes of certain individuals etc, but the cold hard fact is that our club needs saved, the 3 orgainsations of already up and running fans groups have combined their efforts behind one vision, no white knight is charging to the rescue, so what else do we have?

[Bluedell 5,366]

I think it really comes down to wether guys like yourself, a former RST board member, can convince yourself to put the past behind you, get behind people you dont trust, and back a scheme to save our club for the longer term good.

 

We can all hide behind past clashes and mistrusts, dislikes of certain individuals etc, but the cold hard fact is that our club needs saved, the 3 orgainsations of already up and running fans groups have combined their efforts behind one vision, no white knight is charging to the rescue, so what else do we have?

 

I don't have a problem with getting behind something worthwhile, but there's nothing to get behind at the moment. However I'll obviously be looking at what emeges over the forthcoming weeks with interest.

[Tannochsidebear 2,322]

I don't have a problem with getting behind something worthwhile, but there's nothing to get behind at the moment. However I'll obviously be looking at what emeges over the forthcoming weeks with interest.

 

Agreed, and hopefully it wont take weeks to hear what the master plan is, because clearly time is of the essence, and all I can do is give the benefit of the doubt and some positivity to their encouraging words.

 

Like others, there has to be a degree of cynacism at just how quickly a seemingly slow-moving organisation has seemingly transformed itself into a progressive, fast-moving, unified group, and we have to hope that the gravity of the situation has cleared the minds.

[Union City Blue 0]

(Some) interesting contributions on this thread.

 

The RST has indeed "cleared its minds", if that's the right expression. What it is doing right now is asking everyone else to clear their's too because we are all going to be fully tested over the next few weeks and months. At the end of the day, the game has changed and its time for everybody in the Rangers Family to get together. Petty squabbles (and that's what they are) will simply create hot air, slow us all down and get us absolutely nowhere.

 

There are plenty of people - members and non-members of the Trust - who feel the same way. The Trust is simply the vehicle for change, and everybody is, and will be, invited to play their part.

[Zappa 0]

What if the majority of Rangers fans support the concept of fan ownership of the club, but most of those who support that idea don't see the current RST as being their preferred 'vehicle for change' as you put it UCB?

 

Are there any discussions about the creation of a brand new vehicle that all fans groups including the RST & other interested parties could give backing to & unite within under a new roof?

 

Or is it a case of the RST are the vehicle, end of story & you can either climb aboard & enjoy the ride or not be involved in the new Rangers order at all?

 

Is it not potentially damaging to the chances of success of your forthcoming appeal to the Rangers fans to tell them - 'here is our idea, this is what we need to do to save Rangers Football Club, the RST is you leader, join us'??

 

Just some thoughts UCB because I can see epic fail written on the horizon if you're going to tell the Rangers support that the current RST is the 'vehicle for change'. It doesn't matter how much you bang on about the RST having changed, being reinvigorated or how we should all move on & forget the problems, division & mistrust of the past; most people just won't buy it & more importantly won't buy into the scheme. JMHO!

[Tannochsidebear 2,322]

Zappa, forgive me for interjecting as your comments are really directed to UCB, but all the fans groups are united on this.

 

To my knowledge there are only 3 fans groups that are organised and exist both online and offline. The RST, Assembly and Association. All 3 are party to these discussions and are united in trying to launch this scheme.

 

So say you and I start the "Rangers Supporters Solution" tomorrow. Who do we attract as members? How do we raise funds for our PR campaign? Do we start our own forums and website? How do we get ordinary bears to know who we are and what we are about. What gives us the right to say to bears, forget the RST and the Assmebly, we are the only show in town now?

 

Our problem is we have, for too long, had no fans groups representing us at all. Then along came the RST and the Assembly at the one time, and the Murray orchestrated "divide and conquer" campaign only really worked by splitting the fans against each other, and therefore not directing their energies for the betterment of the club and the fans.

 

Now we finally have a situation where the 3 organisations get on pretty well, have a unified aim, are united together on this project, and instead of being happy that we finally have a big enough group to represent us, we want to start another because of the errors of the past.

 

For 2 weeks now the RST has been screaming for anyone with any ideas or plans to come forward and work together. They have actively tried to get investors involved.

 

I really and truly understand why some bears have a complete and total mistrust of the RST, and why they would be cynical of any claim of changed ways.

 

But is it really too much to ask to give the united body a chance to work this through with our support? There is no other vehicle going to come along. There may or may not be a white knight come along and buy us completely. Can we just sit and hope it all works out.

 

Say you back the scheme and it doesn't materialise and the RST fall back to their old ways and are divisive and insular. You get your money back, and the RST is finished, for good.

 

I say to those who dont like the RST it is a win win situation. Either they really have now focused on what is important, have put the past behind them and have listened to the criticism, in which case they are worthy of our support, or they are the same old same old, and are shown up as such, and probably disappear never to be heard from again, or at the very least are stripped of all credibility and no doubt membership.

 

I say again, can we afford to sit back and ride this out and do nothing?

[maineflyer 0]

This is exactly the response I predicted from not just you, but a lot of Rangers supporters who have become disillusioned with the goings on at the RST, and I perfectly understand it, and probably agree with a lot of it.

 

At the break yesterday, I had this very discussion with 2 RST board members, and told them they had no chance of unity within the Rangers support until they can prove absolutely 100% that they are being open, honest, and totally inclusive, and whatever has happened in the past remains there, and we look to move forward together.

 

The impression I got from them, and also MD and SS during the meeting, is exactly that. Anything that has happened before cannot be reversed, but can be put aside.

 

The olive branch is most certainly out from the RST to appeal to all bears to get together and move forward collectively. This is 100% not about who is running the RST in 2009, but about the survival of the club.

Excuse me for saying so but what a load of utter nonsense. What olive branch is this exactly? Where do I find it so that I can have a better look? Is it an olive branch because you say it is or because SS/MD say it is? Where is the evidence of this olive branch? Where were these champions of unity and resolve when other supporters groups wanted to protest the BBC - why were they the only people to refuse to take part? I'm sorry TB but it will take a lot more than the same old weasel words to convince more than the desperate or the gullible. There's no small coincidence that these people want us to believe they've found contrition at precisely the time when they need us, having all but ignored us for so long. I've got many flaws but rank naivety generally isn't one of them.

 

These people have form and it's particularly unimpressive form. With all respect to you, both you and they need to take on board that, while the direction may have some merit, the majority of fans will not offer their support until these people step aside. In my opinion and in the opinion of a significant number of activists, they do not have the integrity and personal qualities required to deliver. They've shown for years the ability to talk in headlines but have repeatedly shown a complete inability to offer a clear and detailled plan - or to bring with them more than their immediate "dependents".

 

If the mission is so important and the plan so good, surely it would be only good sense for these individuals to show their confidence and goodwill by stepping aside and clearing the way for a new leadership that carries no baggage and behind whom we could actually unite. Until that happens, together with many others, I will continue to offer only doubt and opposition.

 

Do you honestly think the future of the club can be divorced from the people involved in shaping that future? I don't and I will tell you now that there are a many committed Rangers fans who will fight tooth and nail to ensure that these particular people never gain a position of influence in the running of our club. You may not like that but you need to accept it. MD and SS would be contributing more to the future of Rangers if they shoved their olive branch where he sun has never shone.

 

You can talk all you like about unity but you will never achieve it while there is any danger of either of these two gentlemen advancing their personal positions.

Edited November 15, 2009 by maineflyer

[Tannochsidebear 2,322]

Excuse me for saying so but what a load of utter nonsense. What olive branch is this exactly? Where do I find it so that I can have a better look? Is it an olive branch because you say it is or because SS/MD say it is? Where is the evidence of this olive branch? Where were these champions of unity and resolve when other supporters groups wanted to protest the BBC - why were they the only people to refuse to take part? I'm sorry TB but it will take a lot more than the same old weasel words to convince more than the desperate or the gullible. There's no small coincidence that these people want us to believe they've found contrition at precisely the time when they need us, having all but ignored us for so long. I've got many flaws but rank naivety generally isn't one of them.

 

These people have form and it's particularly unimpressive form. With all respect to you, both you and they need to take on board that, while the direction may have some merit, the majority of fans will not offer their support until these people step aside. In my opinion and in the opinion of a significant number of activists, they do not have the integrity and personal qualities required to deliver. They've shown for years the ability to talk in headlines but have repeatedly shown a complete inability to offer a clear and detailled plan - or to bring with them more than their immediate "dependents".

 

If the mission is so important and the plan so good, surely it would be only good sense for these individuals to show their confidence and goodwill by stepping aside and clearing the way for a new leadership that carries no baggage and behind whom we could actually unite. Until that happens, together with many others, I will continue to offer only doubt and opposition.

 

Do you honestly think the future of the club can be divorced from the people involved in shaping that future? I don't and I will tell you now that there are a many committed Rangers fans who will fight tooth and nail to ensure that these particular people never gain a position of influence in the running of our club. You may not like that but you need to accept it. MD and SS would be contributing more to the future of Rangers if they shoved their olive branch where he sun has never shone.

 

You can talk all you like about unity but you will never achieve it while these is any danger of either of these two gentlemen advancing their personal positions.

 

 

Sadly, this train of thought is deeply depressing.

 

Again you go back to the BBC protest. I can also name plenty of wasted chances the RST has passed up when it should have supported initiatives from other fans and groups.

 

But none of that matters now, or at least it shouldn't. I understand your views of SS and MD and I know for a fact it is shared by many, and that their form is not as impressive as their words were yesterday. In some ways I share your concerns, and in some ways I agree that a clean sweep would lead to a better chance of success. If it was me, I would gladly step aside for the good of the scheme. but then I'm not the one who has to do that, and to be honest now is not the time for more political positioning and infighting.

 

We are where we are, and it is important to the future of the club that we unify as never before. Can we set aside old grudges and policy differences? Or are they so discredited in your view that there is absolutely no way back, that they would never get your support for this scheme, and nothing they can say or do in the short term would be good enough, short of resignations?

[Union City Blue 0]

What if the majority of Rangers fans support the concept of fan ownership of the club, but most of those who support that idea don't see the current RST as being their preferred 'vehicle for change' as you put it UCB?

 

Are there any discussions about the creation of a brand new vehicle that all fans groups including the RST & other interested parties could give backing to & unite within under a new roof?

 

Or is it a case of the RST are the vehicle, end of story & you can either climb aboard & enjoy the ride or not be involved in the new Rangers order at all?

 

Is it not potentially damaging to the chances of success of your forthcoming appeal to the Rangers fans to tell them - 'here is our idea, this is what we need to do to save Rangers Football Club, the RST is you leader, join us'??

 

Just some thoughts UCB because I can see epic fail written on the horizon if you're going to tell the Rangers support that the current RST is the 'vehicle for change'. It doesn't matter how much you bang on about the RST having changed, being reinvigorated or how we should all move on & forget the problems, division & mistrust of the past; most people just won't buy it & more importantly won't buy into the scheme. JMHO!

 

Shroomz

 

OK, I understand your questions but I would ask you to quantify them in some way please.

 

Are you saying that even if the people in the RST with colleagues in the Assembly and Association come up with an investment vehicle that is legally and financially watertight, that is backed and managed by associates with impeccible personal & professional credibility, that is designed to filter large amounts of supporters cash into the future of Rangers FC and free it from the threatening clutches of the bank .... you predict epic fail simply because the RST is involved?

 

If so, how can you quantify your "most people" statement?

[pete 2,499]

Excuse me for saying so but what a load of utter nonsense. What olive branch is this exactly? Where do I find it so that I can have a better look? Is it an olive branch because you say it is or because SS/MD say it is? Where is the evidence of this olive branch? Where were these champions of unity and resolve when other supporters groups wanted to protest the BBC - why were they the only people to refuse to take part? I'm sorry TB but it will take a lot more than the same old weasel words to convince more than the desperate or the gullible. There's no small coincidence that these people want us to believe they've found contrition at precisely the time when they need us, having all but ignored us for so long. I've got many flaws but rank naivety generally isn't one of them.

 

These people have form and it's particularly unimpressive form. With all respect to you, both you and they need to take on board that, while the direction may have some merit, the majority of fans will not offer their support until these people step aside. In my opinion and in the opinion of a significant number of activists, they do not have the integrity and personal qualities required to deliver. They've shown for years the ability to talk in headlines but have repeatedly shown a complete inability to offer a clear and detailled plan - or to bring with them more than their immediate "dependents".

 

If the mission is so important and the plan so good, surely it would be only good sense for these individuals to show their confidence and goodwill by stepping aside and clearing the way for a new leadership that carries no baggage and behind whom we could actually unite. Until that happens, together with many others, I will continue to offer only doubt and opposition.

 

Do you honestly think the future of the club can be divorced from the people involved in shaping that future? I don't and I will tell you now that there are a many committed Rangers fans who will fight tooth and nail to ensure that these particular people never gain a position of influence in the running of our club. You may not like that but you need to accept it. MD and SS would be contributing more to the future of Rangers if they shoved their olive branch where he sun has never shone.

 

You can talk all you like about unity but you will never achieve it while these is any danger of either of these two gentlemen advancing their personal positions.

 

I am not up in the politics of the RST or the assembly but i feel it is most important to get up and running and then have a vote to choose a board of directors. The people who set it up don't have to be the best people to run things daily.