pete 2,499 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Being a Rangers supporter these days� means you have to be totally immune to stress. Every day a new story appears in the media. Douglas Park, Dave King a fan take-over and recently the Herald hit us with an ex-pat Florida Billionaire. Firstly he wants to stay anonymous. Why pass information on to the Herald then. While this may be possible in the opening negotiations i would be extremely cautious of someone i could not look in the eye. His plan to give a bridging Facility to cover Rangers debt and let the 15.000 fans pay 1000 pounds over three years looks good on the surface but at the end up the fans have put in 45million for 50% and he gets 50% for putting in absolutely hee haw. Surely this anonymous mouse is taking the Mickey. Do we really want to go down the millionaire�s toy, road again anyway? Have we not learned from the past 20 years? Remember us scoffing at Gretna and their millionaire owner Brooks Mileson well little did we know that a year later we would almost be in a similar situation. As a Rangers supporter living in Holland i have been following the demise of Dick Scheringa who was the sugar daddy to AZ Alkmaar and just like Rangers being a part of Murray International holdings, AZ fell under the Dick Scheringa Beheer, a group of Scheringa companies including the Dick Scheringa Bank (DSB). One Statement from a financial expert on TV saying the finances at the bank were in a mess and that started a run of people lifting money. Within days Scheringa�s whole empire collapsed about him. Unlike Murray, Scheringa or the DSB had paid AZ up front so they are safe for the moment but once the fiscals come looking for money they could also be in deep trouble. Wouldn�t it be great to have a Russian Billionaire like Chelsea i have heard many say over the last few weeks but more and more noises are coming to the surface that Roman Abramovitch�s companies are also in serious trouble. He recently sold shares worth 50million pounds for only 12million pounds supposedly to free up some cash as he is reputed to have had some cash flow problems. He denies that of course. All employees at Chelsea have been warned that they have not to leak any information over the finances at Stamford Bridge. The last financial statement to be given free was in 2007 and stated that Chelsea were 83million pounds in the red and owed Roman Abramovitch, on interest free loans, a staggering 578million pounds to be payed back within 18 months of asking.. This figure is now thought to have ballooned up to more than 700million with the total debt near 800million. Now Roman might be willing to let this loan go on unserviced and i am no financial wizard, but i would imagine that if the bottom falls out of Abramovitch�s businesses, as it did with Murray and Scheringa, then it won�t take the fiscals long before they start chasing the Abramovitch money at Chelsea. I would imagine that would be the end of Chelsea. A doomsday scenario probably thought impossible a few months ago. The greatest thing that can happen in any football club is that it is run by the fans for the fans and not for some rich fat cat to have a wee toy. We have learned from the above cases that we are not only dependant on our club being run financially correct but also depend on other business ventures of the owner to be run astutely. Unfortunately the massive debt crippling the club probably means we will have to get investors to clear the debt or possibly sell the first team and go forward with the youth team, accepting we will be second best for the first few years, a price that may be worth paying to get fan ownership. The youth option would of course probably hand Celtic the Champions league cash for the first few years and make them stronger an option unthinkable to many fans. Obviously Rangers and the bank will have to be willing and open to the idea of Fan ownership and play a large part in any transformation. For this to work we need the leaders of the all supporters groups to pull together and unite as one supporters group. They have to be in it for the love of Rangers and not to feed an inflated ego. We need enemies of the past to bury their hatchets and unite behind this cause otherwise it is doomed from day one. We need everyone on board no matter how big or small they are, every member and every tenner will count. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,151 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Excellent article pete - will get that online later... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 (edited) The greatest thing that can happen in any football club is that it is run by the fans for the fans and not for some rich fat cat to have a wee toy. Pete, Sorry for extracting again but I just wanted to make he observation that, while fan ownership would indeed be a worthwhile outcome, it really does depend on that ownership being set in a truly workable framework where all fans have an equal say in critical decision making and the overall direction of the club. If it emerges as another vehicle for the personal aspirations of a small elite as we've seen so often at this club then I'd sooner stay well away fom it. The reality is that fan ownership is no guarantee of a well run club. Unless very carefully constructed, it could be a chaotic disaster. Intuitively, I also lean owards supporter ownership but I can also see huge dangers unless it is very carefully constructed and a meaningful balance is struck between safeguards against and empowerment of the executive. Edited November 20, 2009 by maineflyer 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,151 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Now on the main site.... http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=163:the-way-forward-single-majority-shareholder-not-required&catid=1:articles&Itemid=67 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 Pete, Sorry for extracting again but I just wanted to make he observation that, while fan ownership would indeed be a worthwhile outcome, it really does depend on that ownership being set in a truly workable framework where all fans have an equal say in critical decision making and the overall direction of the club. If it emerges as another vehicle for the personal aspirations of a small elite as we've seen so often at this club then I'd sooner stay well away fom it. The reality is that fan ownership is no guarantee of a well run club. Unless very carefully constructed, it could be a chaotic disaster. Intuitively, I also lean owards supporter ownership but I can also see huge dangers unless it is very carefully constructed and a meaningful balance is struck between safeguards against and empowerment of the executive. While not being able to think about 17 different frameworks the RST seem to have i personally would like to see the Hamburg setup(as i see it) and that is as club form with an affordable membership fee for almost everyone. Obviously there have to be a chosen few to run the club on a daily basis. This always brings with it ego hunters,Jealousy and people who always think they can do better. I have found that the people with the most critique are mostly ones who stay in the shadows. This is not aimed at anyone in particular and certainly not on the Gersnet but just my observations in any clubs i have been part of including the East of Holland Darts org. You can please some of the people all of the time etc! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggordy 0 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Having one owner, decisions can be reached in moments. He/she pleases themselves for whatever reason. After all they bought the "toy" and they can do what they wish. If they want to consider the fans, they can. If they don't, they don't. eg. Mike Ashley. At least with an elected President he can be unelected, therefore it is in his/her own interests to please the voters (fans). So indirectly the fans can have a big say with a President and no say with an owner, no matter how rich that owner may be. This being the case and citing the possible repercussions with simple "possession" ownership, I believe the "Presidential route is a no brainer. As you rightly say pete, there will be very little opportunity for "egos" in fan ownership. I only hope that no buyer comes in before the support can get the fan ownership plan up and running. A rich owner is the quicker and easier fix but can only be considered as short-termism because we run the risk of being in this position again. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilledbear 16 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 To get right down to the nitty gritty, how many Supporters do you think will contribute, say 3k over 3 years? The many I know, I would say 2, and even then they would want a guarantee that they wouldn't lose it. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 2,499 Posted November 20, 2009 Author Share Posted November 20, 2009 To get right down to the nitty gritty, how many Supporters do you think will contribute, say 3k over 3 years? The many I know, I would say 2, and even then they would want a guarantee that they wouldn't lose it. My option would be in two tiers.(My opinion) My long term plan would be to set up a club where 60.000 supporters pay a membership. You can have Baby,Child teenage adult membership as long as money is coming in. Getting whole families involved is a plan for the future. To clear the debt we now have as i stated in my post two options,. Selling the first team and going forward with the youth or looking for investors. If we were a regional team it would be far easier to get investors but unfortunately sponsors have to go for a Rangers \Celtic combination to keep the peace. In saying this there must be sufficient Rangers business men who don't want to be involved in the running of the club but would put in extra funds. I can understand that they did not want to do this under Murray but these men now have to come forward and offer their help. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggordy 0 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 I have to rely on benefits right now due to disability, not laziness. There is no way I could afford that kind of cash, where did you get a figure like that CB ? Did I miss something ? Judging by the Hamburg model I was looking like a monthly fee of �£20 to �£30 which I think would be manageable. I'm sure not many would be willing (or able) to put �£1000 p.a.into the Club. But that again comes back to the more cash an individual wishes to put in, the more say they should expect. But I think this has already been discussed. Of course there are many more wealthier supporters than me but I think I would be at the lowest end of any "fee" 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I have to rely on benefits right now due to disability, not laziness. There is no way I could afford that kind of cash, where did you get a figure like that CB ? Did I miss something ? Judging by the Hamburg model I was looking like a monthly fee of �£20 to �£30 which I think would be manageable. I'm sure not many would be willing (or able) to put �£1000 p.a.into the Club. But that again comes back to the more cash an individual wishes to put in, the more say they should expect. But I think this has already been discussed. Of course there are many more wealthier supporters than me but I think I would be at the lowest end of any "fee" I think there will be a large number of people who will want to be members but, for whatever reason, will be unable to afford the fee. I just hope we can avoid any misunderstanding here - being a member would give you a voting right, nothing more. However, every Rangers supporter, member or not, will still be fully entitled to an opinion. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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