Jon 0 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 The Serie A club, who are competing in European competition for the first time, are followed by one of the most notorious supports in Italian football. Livorno, situated in Tuscany, is known as the capital of Italian anarchy and was the birthplace of the country's Communist Party in 1921. Perhaps the only thing Livorno's supporters, known as Ultras, have in common with those of Rangers is a dislike of former Celtic striker Paolo Di Canio. Livorno's fans have their most violent rivalries with supporters of Italy's traditionally right-wing clubs Lazio, Inter Milan and Verona. In December last year, Di Canio gave a fascist salute while playing for Lazio against Livorno and was subsequently fined and banned after repeating the action during a game against Juventus. Clearly, security will be a major issue for the game at the 18,200 Armando Picchi Stadium later this month when the UEFA delegate on duty may have more to think about that any potential discriminatory chanting from what is likely to be a sizeable Rangers support. While Livorno were the bottom-ranked club in the fourth of the five seeded pots for yesterday's draw, they are likely to present Rangers with a stern examination on matchday one. Promoted in 2004, after 55 years outside the top flight of Italian football, they secured an unexpected ninth place finish in Serie A last season. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 What's the difference between Right-Wing and Left-Wing parties? I've never been into politics but I'm finding this situation interesting because it involves football. Di Canio is a right wing facsist right? What's communism got to do with this? Are communistst left wing? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 6,993 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 What's the difference between Right-Wing and Left-Wing parties? I've never been into politics but I'm finding this situation interesting because it involves football. Di Canio is a right wing facsist right? What's communism got to do with this? Are communistst left wing? Yes - extreme communism is as bad / violent as extreme facism - in fact, the 'left wing' politicians are as bad as facists as they want to take any freedom of speach and thought - if you don't agree with them, then you are a facist!!! The game against Livorno is going to be very interesting as they have been in trouble recently (just like us) for overtly political chanting at their games and Timmy has already been on their forums stoking up this game. Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon 0 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 and Timmy has already been on their forums stoking up this game. Cammy F Now there's a shock mate!!! They really are pricks but I still hate the sheep more 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 What's communism got to do with this? Are communistst left wing? communism is far left, fascism is far right. both are controlling philosophies, the far left in the name of "equality" for the people (everyone pays 100% tax, and get all they need from the government), and the far right in terms of dictatorships, usually highly nationalistic (ie: the nazi's). both deny individual liberty, but generally "in the name of" opposing things. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon 0 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 Thats the thing I never understood Barry, how can far left be in the frame for equality if they still want to control everything. Right wing an Nazi shit thenfuck them. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CammyF 6,993 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Here's what gets me about Timmy tho - they claim to be 'left-wing' - well its fashionable at the moment - but their history shows that they supported the Nazi's during the war, they proclaim a love for a 'facist' (small 'F') religion - who's current leader was a member of 'Hitler Youth' and Paulo Di Cannio was treated like a God at Parkhead.... They really are a mixed up bunch.... Cammy F 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Thats the thing I never understood Barry, how can far left be in the frame for equality if they still want to control everything. well, they say that if everyone pays 100% tax, and get all they need to live from the government, then everyone is equal. everyone does their job for the benefit of everyone in society (doctors get "paid" the same as cleaners, ie: nothing), but get food/clothes etc from the government. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon 0 Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 I dunno, all beyond me an I need my bed. Hopefully others will join in an give their opinions. I just think polotics, religion an justifying your actions for either is bollocks 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Left wing tend to want higher taxes to pay for more public services and public ownership. They tend to want more government control over industry and our day to day lives. It stems from a philosophy of cooperation, the community pulling together and sense of equality where like Robin Hood, money is taken from the rich to pay for the poor. The more left wing tend towards nationalising industries and building council estates. Left wing politics has brought us the national health system, social services, unemployment benefit, free schools and the national postal service. As they try to embrace everyone they are responsible for equal opportunities as well as political correctness. Also British rail and other public transport. Labour are the traditional moderate left British party. In the extreme left they become communists where ideally everyone is supposedly equal, there is no rich or poor, everyone has a job, a home, food to eat and there is emphasis on art and sport to develop minds and body. The government controls everything for the good of the people. This is Karl Marx's Utopia. The reality is that there is no incentive to work hard, massive corruption, no innovation, a top down hierarchy where blanket decisions are made in ignorance, the suppression of the individual as well as religion, freedom of speech and thought, which also results in most people living in drab run down blocks of flats with little luxury goods driving terrible cars that have been designed decades ago etc, while the top government people live a life of luxury and privilege. It also results in no-one taking responsibility for consequences of things like pollution etc as they are too busy trying to meat targets handed down from above. The Soviet Union was an example of this. The right wing want the opposite. Low taxes, less public services, less interference in industry and day to day lives. Their philosophy is that individuals should strive to succeed and competition allows choice and better results. You should choose where to spend your money and nothing is free, the poor are just failures or an inconvenience. Basically every man for himself. More right wing tends towards complete privatisation, building of private schools and hospitals, reduction of spending on free schools and the NHS, removal of public transport and the building of more roads. They would also want the removal of unemployment benefit after a short period and no minimum wage. Right wing governments have created large international corporations, private health, insurance companies, quality luxury cars, consumer goods, competitive markets. The traditional moderate right party in Britain is the Conservatives. The extreme right are fascists who want to get rid of the hangers on in society such as the old, the unemployed, the disabled etc. They are called "useless eaters". They tend to discriminate against people who are different and are down on diversity of religion and race. They want to stop immigration and eject foreign nationals. They want no public services and everyone to pay for everything themselves. They tend to go to war quickly and with great force "to defend their way of life". The result usually means a dictatorship where dissidents are imprisoned and killed, ethnic minorities and religions are discriminated against, individualism is ironically repressed as if you don't agree with the party line then you are an enemy of the state. Poor people are left to starve while the rich live life in luxury. Again ironically there has to be far more public spending on law and order due to crime from the lower and under classes trying to eke a living until the whole country becomes a police state. Hitler's Germany is an example. An example of far right but not fascism is the US. They worship capitalism and have less controls on industry and people's lives. Their country is a mess as the pursuit of a quick buck means that no-one takes responsibility for environmental or social impact. There is little help for the poor and freedom of choice allows the expansion of a gun culture turning into gang warfare. There are many people below the breadline while the rich live in gated citadels and pay for armed guards. Obviously around the centre is the best balance. The centre parties tend to be called "Liberals" or "Democrats" and believe in competition while the government controls things like monopolies, standards, environmental impacts, healthiness of food etc. They are responsible for the government watchdog agencies such as OFTEL, OFWAT and the Monopolies Commission. They like to raise taxes to pay for better schooling and NHS but without overspending. They believe in catering for the needs of the individual balanced with the needs of the community. They are the least likely to go to war. Britain stays pretty central by virtue of the political pendulum rocking back and forth between two moderate parties who are on opposite sides of the spectrum. This is now more so, with Labour having moved to the right a tad and the Tories now moving more to the left since Maggie Thatcher's days. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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