Weir signs one year deal?

[Zappa 0]

Who's to say a younger defender wouldn't have made mistakes? Players young and old make mistakes.

 

Nobody is saying otherwise. Every single player makes mistakes. We know that.

 

I think you're being extremely harsh on possibly our best player for 4 and a half seasons.

 

I can't argue with the second part of that at all. He has indeed been one of our best players, possibly the best. Why am I being extremely harsh though? Basically what I've said is that he's been brilliant and I'd love us to get him in a player/coach role where he plays if we've got an injury crisis or something, but mostly coaches. I've said that I would rather David Weir wasn't one of our first choice central defenders again in the coming season because I think he's too old. If that's being too harsh then so be it, but I don't think it is too harsh. I just don't want a 41 year old central defender. No wonder so many young lads struggle to break through into first team football when you've got guys still playing at 41 years of age.

 

Yes, he's getting older but his performances haven't dropped.

 

I don't really see that as a suitable argument for signing him on again to be a first choice defender for us. His performances could stay roughly as they are now for another ten years, but the guy needs to retire from playing every week at some point. Personally I think that point should be now, but it's just an opinion and I know fine well that I'm maybe in the minority.

 

What were the games out of your memory that Weir made "a fair number of mistakes" in? I can think of 1.

 

I notice a few guys have agreed with you that Weir only really made that one mistake when Hooper skinned him, but personally I don't think that was his worst defensive mistake by a long shot last season.

 

0-3 loss to Hibs at Ibrox in November - Absolutely shocking stuff. No idea what on earth our best defender was doing that day, but he wasn't defending well, that's for sure.

 

2nd of January at Ibrox - Misplaced pass from Foster in Celtic's half leads to a quick long ball from Ledley to a running Greek Gypo and the Greek Gypo beats Bougherra, Weir and McGregor. Not completely Weir's fault I'll admit, but he shouldn't have been as far forward leaving himself in a position to be skinned by a running gypsy. Weir's positioning forced McGregor into making the decision to come out which he maybe wouldn't have done otherwise.

 

2-3 loss to Dundee Utd at Ibrox in April - Weir should have had their second goal easily covered. Why he didn't just stick his head on the ball and clear it, I'll never know. Their 3rd and match-winning goal I was fcking livid about. There's no way we should have been caught on the break like that. Weir shouldn't have been right up for the corner.

 

That's just 3 other games I remember clearly. Like I said, I don't think the Hooper goal was Weir's worst mistake of the season at all.

 

You still haven't said why playing Weir is an embarrassment to our club. Or if you have I've missed it.

 

I just don't want the club to have a 41 year old first choice central defender in the coming season. If Weir is a first choice player again for us, not only will teams in Europe be rubbing their hands, but SPL teams will too. I'm not saying Weir isn't still a good player, but if he's a regular starter again I think his age will be seen as one of our weaknesses and questions will definitely be regularly asked as to why we weren't able to replace him.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Zappa

[craig 5,199]

Your 2nd point above is completely irrelevant Zappa. Lack of young players breaking through is nothing to do with Weir's age. In fact, the opposite is more likely - in that the youngster's should be embarrassed that they cant dislodge a 41 yr old. Either that or, most likely, Davie Weir really IS better than the young CB's we have.

 

But one thing is for sure, Weir's age is NOT what is preventing young players coming through. If they are learning as they should, from someone as experienced as Weir, then they should be pushing for a start anyway - but they arent. Weir's age isnt the contributory factor in that.

[Danny 0]

 

I notice a few guys have agreed with you that Weir only really made that one mistake when Hooper skinned him, but personally I don't think that was his worst defensive mistake by a long shot last season.

 

 

In the same match he was standing around trying to play offside when Izzaguirre I think it was crossed for Hooper's second. I was furious with him.

 

And I'm probably in the minority but I really hate it when he gets aggressively involved with things - either confronting the ref, opposition players. It just doesn't set a good example.

[Zappa 0]

Your 2nd point above is completely irrelevant Zappa. Lack of young players breaking through is nothing to do with Weir's age. In fact, the opposite is more likely - in that the youngster's should be embarrassed that they cant dislodge a 41 yr old. Either that or, most likely, Davie Weir really IS better than the young CB's we have.

 

But one thing is for sure, Weir's age is NOT what is preventing young players coming through. If they are learning as they should, from someone as experienced as Weir, then they should be pushing for a start anyway - but they arent. Weir's age isnt the contributory factor in that.

 

I just threw that comment in there mate. I wasn't trying to use it as a reason that Weir shouldn't be a first choice defender for us again. I just think some of these guys playing into their late thirties and in Davie's case into his forties is taking the piss a bit. Goalkeepers have always played till an older age, but we're not talking about goalkeepers. Guys like Weir, Daily and even Giggs should hang up their boots and coach the younger lads IMO.

[Zappa 0]

In the same match he was standing around trying to play offside when Izzaguirre I think it was crossed for Hooper's second. I was furious with him.

 

He was ball-watching at at least one of the Hibs goals in November too.

 

And I'm probably in the minority but I really hate it when he gets aggressively involved with things - either confronting the ref, opposition players. It just doesn't set a good example.

 

I like the fact that he doesn't take any shit. He's a bit of a hard man really. In all honestly though, there were a few off the ball incidents last year that Weir was very lucky to get away with.

Edited June 30, 2011 by Zappa

[craig 5,199]

Zappa, to blame that Hibs loss on Weir is churlish at best. Weir was far from the most culpable that night, FAR from it - sadly I remember the game only too well as it was my 6yr olds first live game. He had absolutely no cover at all from the midfield. Our central midfield gave Liam Miller the whole of Ibrox that night. At no point did any of our CM's close Miller down. Which meant he was breaking onto Weir, who already had a striker to contend with - so now he has his own man to mark as well as the breaking midfielder. You want to blame anyone for that game and I think you are barking far, far up the wrong tree in blaming Weir. McGregor was more culpable than Weir that night letting in a 25 yarder that wasnt in the corner (ball has some swerve but McGregor should still have got closer). Even then, the midfield were by far the biggest culprits.

 

As for the Jan 2nd game. Weir was probably as far forward as he was because we were in possession and he wouldnt have expected a piss poor pass from one of his team-mates. He wasnt THAT far forward anyway. In fact, I challenge you to go and take a look at that goal again and I defy anyone to blame Weir for it. ANYONE. Foster was 25 yards into the Celtic half when he mis-placed the pass. The resultant ball forward was placed between Bougherra & Weir and it was actually Bougherra who got caught on his heels. And I am mystified how you can saw Weir was too far forward - he was more than 10 yards inside his own half when the ball was played forward. How can that be too far forward when your own team are in possession ?

 

I also think you are completely wrong about the 3rd goal against Utd. We were chasing a winner, a goal that, at the time we felt we NEEDED to keep us in the title chase. Davie Weir, despite not having scored a plethora of goals for us, would have been our most potent threat at a corner kick with a header. I know of very few teams who would NOT send their CB up for a corner kick in the final seconds of a game searching for a winner. Why would you have kept Weir back ? Just in case Utd break away so Weir can use his "pace" to prevent the quick breakaway ? That makes absolutely NO sense. None whatsoever. The player(s) that a team would keep back would be one of the faster players who can cover ground quickly. It isnt rocket science and it is something which the VAST majority of clubs would do. Blaming Weir for that is completely wrong, obviously only in my opinion.

 

So all of the above still takes us back to that Hooper incident - and even that wasnt a big mistake - Hooper's turn that day would have beaten many, many top class defenders - it was a terrific turn and finish, plain and simple. Very difficult to defend - the only real mistake Weir made was that he got too close to Hooper, giving himself less time to react to the turn.

 

I am not nearly as convinced as you are that other SPL forwards will be rubbing their hands at the prospect of playing against Weir. It wasnt as if they enjoyed playing against him last year. Sure, they may burn him for pace, but his footballing intelligence means that his lack of pace isnt found out as often as it could be.

[craig 5,199]

I just threw that comment in there mate. I wasn't trying to use it as a reason that Weir shouldn't be a first choice defender for us again. I just think some of these guys playing into their late thirties and in Davie's case into his forties is taking the piss a bit. Goalkeepers have always played till an older age, but we're not talking about goalkeepers. Guys like Weir, Daily and even Giggs should hang up their boots and coach the younger lads IMO.

 

I still disagree Zappa. It is a short career in football and the people that matter most in determining a players career length is the player themselves and the manager who needs to pick them, or not.

 

Weir is still good enough to play for Rangers, I have no doubt about that. None. His age is an irrelevance.

 

Likewise, just why should Giggs hang up his boots when he is still good enough to play at the top level ? You dont think they will be teaching the younger lads at training ? Course they will be. But even if not, if they are still good enough then there is absolutely NO REASON for them to hang up their boots. Both Weir & Giggs still have contributions to make. So why prevent them from playing their trade just because they are of a certain age ?

 

Giggs & Weir obviously take care of themselves and, in fact, probably take better care of themselves than players half their age. I just dont see why we are getting so hung up on the age thing. It shouldnt matter. Much the same way as if a player is "good enough then they are old enough" it should be "if they are good enough then age doesnt matter"

[Danny 0]

Ryan Giggs didn't play every single match for Man Utd last season by a long way. He's also playing a sitting role in central midfield when he is used rather than his old wing position which doesn't require as much pace.

 

Weir's position does require pace, and he plays every match.

 

The problem boils down to many fans, myself included, simply not wanting to continue on with a player who Ian Crocker constantly laughs at as an old player. Not that I care what he says in general, it's just that having a 41 year old player in modern football is very rare and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

When Wilson broke through to the first team, I seem to recall he didn't take Weir's place - it was Bougherra he replaced. Now, admittedly Bougherra was having 'passport' problems and wasn't flavour of the month, but his form that season was good. I'd have much rather, at the time, seen Bougherra and Wilson than Weir. This to me suggests that even if a young player is good enough, Weir is still first choice.

 

I just feel it's time to move on, but it doesn't look like we will.

[Zappa 0]

Zappa, to blame that Hibs loss on Weir is churlish at best. Weir was far from the most culpable that night, FAR from it - sadly I remember the game only too well as it was my 6yr olds first live game. He had absolutely no cover at all from the midfield. Our central midfield gave Liam Miller the whole of Ibrox that night. At no point did any of our CM's close Miller down. Which meant he was breaking onto Weir, who already had a striker to contend with - so now he has his own man to mark as well as the breaking midfielder. You want to blame anyone for that game and I think you are barking far, far up the wrong tree in blaming Weir. McGregor was more culpable than Weir that night letting in a 25 yarder that wasnt in the corner (ball has some swerve but McGregor should still have got closer). Even then, the midfield were by far the biggest culprits.

 

I agree with you mate and I wasn't trying to solely blame Weir for that game because McGregor could have done better at at least one of the goals and as you say, the midfield were probably the worst culprits. Edu was pretty bloody awful IIRC. Basically though, I do see that as a game in which Weir could have done far better. Losing 3 goals at Ibrox to Hibs is a poor show and Davie definitely played his part in it given that he's supposed to be our best defender and was captaining the team.

 

 

As for the Jan 2nd game. Weir was probably as far forward as he was because we were in possession and he wouldnt have expected a piss poor pass from one of his team-mates. He wasnt THAT far forward anyway. In fact, I challenge you to go and take a look at that goal again and I defy anyone to blame Weir for it. ANYONE. Foster was 25 yards into the Celtic half when he mis-placed the pass. The resultant ball forward was placed between Bougherra & Weir and it was actually Bougherra who got caught on his heels. And I am mystified how you can saw Weir was too far forward - he was more than 10 yards inside his own half when the ball was played forward. How can that be too far forward when your own team are in possession ?

 

What do you mean how can it be too far forward? The Greek gypsy easily got beyond our two covering players and scored a goal didn't he? That says to me that Weir was too far forward. We had a back line of two at that specific point and the gypsy got passed it with ease. Yes, bougherra was at fault too, but Weir was the captain and the one with the most experience. You talk about how brilliant his positioning is and yes I agree that it's one of his major strong points, but he definitely got it all wrong there. I was asked for examples other than the Hooper one, so I'm just giving them.

 

I also think you are completely wrong about the 3rd goal against Utd. We were chasing a winner, a goal that, at the time we felt we NEEDED to keep us in the title chase. Davie Weir, despite not having scored a plethora of goals for us, would have been our most potent threat at a corner kick with a header.

 

I fail to see how he would have been our most potent threat when he was going up for corner kicks all season and didn't score a single goal. You're not making sense mate.

 

I know of very few teams who would NOT send their CB up for a corner kick in the final seconds of a game searching for a winner. Why would you have kept Weir back ? Just in case Utd break away so Weir can use his "pace" to prevent the quick breakaway ?

 

I would have kept more than Weir back to make sure we didn't lose another goal because I'd rather we had drawn and taken a point than lost that game. We could easily have been safe as well as trying to score the winner by playing a different type of set piece, keeping possession and trying to score. That to me would have been the sensible approach.

[craig 5,199]

Facccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk - I had a lengthy response Zapps, and hit a key which lost the whole fucking thing. Dammit !! Later ! Suffice to say for now I still disagree