Murray Park ?

[craig 5,195]

That's quite a valid point, as the supervision aspect is one which has certainly had an impact... Less youth clubs and less school teachers willing to take on the responsibility of extra curricular activities due to bureaucracy and the surrounding legal issues involved in supervising kids these days.

 

Absolutely.

 

Case in point : Our cub has 3 U8 teams, mine is the middle one in terms of ability. The 1st and 2nd teams played in a competition in March against all the other island club sides. Our 1st team won their age group, our team did far better than I expected but just fell short of quaifying for the quarters.

 

However.... almost ALL of my parents see our youth football program as a babysitting service. They dump and run and sometimes pick their kids up on time. No-one there to discipline the kids should they act out of line.

 

The 1st team ? Almost every single parent stays for every training session and watches, showing a true involvement in their kids sporting progression. It is like night and day.

 

And the kids pick up on it too - they think "if Mum/Dad cant be bothered staying to watch me then they dont really care about the game. Ergo, I wnt bother either".

 

Sad, but true.

[rbr 1,247]

Craig you make a very valid point on the coaching and what class or stage of a players development they should coach at , the point you made about Spain is probably the most valid of all .

 

After they won the W/C I listened to an indepth interview with their head of development on Talksport , they have over 600 coaches with the top coaching certificate and 95% coach kids under 12 , compare to Engl;and who had 90 coaches with the same competence and they all coached in the premiership with the first team squads , absolutely crazy .

 

I didi try to find outfrom Rangers what our coaches held and what age they coached , but they wouldn't tell me anything , probably none of my business but I thought it worth asking

[andy steel 0]

The countries we are holding up as examples have a tradition of social democracy; Spain and France, in the periods mentioned, were further to the left than that. I can't see any chance of Scotland, or the UK, embracing that sort of culture.

 

It's one of the downsides to Mrs Thatcher's revolution, the concept of instant return on your investment. An idea like investing and getting a return 30 years later isn't going to fly in Britain anymore. Sorry about the politics but I think we ought to be clear that, while these examples are the perfect ones for us to follow, in Britain it simply will not happen for cultural reasons. Not now, and not in the future.

 

So if we're stuck with what we've got, the only alternative has to be a generation of coaches who don't buy into the cosy merry-go-round of clubs/media. Sorry to be gloomy, but I can't see it.

[Darthter 542]

The countries we are holding up as examples have a tradition of social democracy; Spain and France, in the periods mentioned, were further to the left than that. I can't see any chance of Scotland, or the UK, embracing that sort of culture.

 

It's one of the downsides to Mrs Thatcher's revolution, the concept of instant return on your investment. An idea like investing and getting a return 30 years later isn't going to fly in Britain anymore. Sorry about the politics but I think we ought to be clear that, while these examples are the perfect ones for us to follow, in Britain it simply will not happen for cultural reasons. Not now, and not in the future.

 

So if we're stuck with what we've got, the only alternative has to be a generation of coaches who don't buy into the cosy merry-go-round of clubs/media. Sorry to be gloomy, but I can't see it.

 

I think its common place in society now that folk want instant results. In football that means buying in "ready made" players....let someone else do the real work ie. coaching/encouraging from a young age.

 

How many English players play in the top teams in the Premiership??? The vast majority will be from abroad.

[kuznetsov 0]

I think its common place in society now that folk want instant results. In football that means buying in "ready made" players....let someone else do the real work ie. coaching/encouraging from a young age.

 

How many English players play in the top teams in the Premiership??? The vast majority will be from abroad.

 

Don't most of them?

 

Hart

Johnson

K Walker

Baines

Cole

Terry

Ferdinand

Cahill

Lescott

Barry

Milner

Gerrard

Scholes

Carrick

Lampard

Rooney

Young

 

And the rest.........

 

The top teams like Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham and even Everton are made up of an English nucleus with top quality foreigners complimenting the English players. Arsenal and Newcastle being the odd exception to those with many foreigners making up their first 11's. There are more English players than we think in the "top" teams.

[andy steel 0]

I think its common place in society now that folk want instant results. In football that means buying in "ready made" players....let someone else do the real work ie. coaching/encouraging from a young age.

 

How many English players play in the top teams in the Premiership??? The vast majority will be from abroad.

 

Well, you're absolutely right. There's no difference between Scotland and England in terms of attitude. But the comparisons have been with Netherlands, Scandinavia, France. These countries do see the bigger picture, but since we in the UK can't, I'm not sure how much use comparisons are.

[Darthter 542]

Well, you're absolutely right. There's no difference between Scotland and England in terms of attitude. But the comparisons have been with Netherlands, Scandinavia, France. These countries do see the bigger picture, but since we in the UK can't, I'm not sure how much use comparisons are.

 

I think we require a "lightbulb" moment. When people in charge of the UK game suddenly realise that the grassroots setup in this country isn't up to scratch compared to other countries.

 

This doesn't just apply to football. The UK as a whole like to think of itself as a great sporting nation...yet in how many sports do we really dominate???

[kuznetsov 0]

I think we require a "lightbulb" moment. When people in charge of the UK game suddenly realise that the grassroots setup in this country isn't up to scratch compared to other countries.

 

This doesn't just apply to football. The UK as a whole like to think of itself as a great sporting nation...yet in how many sports do we really dominate???

 

Pub sports, if you can call them sports! Snooker and darts.

[Guest cail]

You make a valid point Re Technology but is it not also proven that the UK has, generally, one of the world's highest %age of lazy kids ? Either way, I shouldnt have used that reason as a catch all - I think there are other more important factors than that. That said, technology was only one thing - there are other things they would rather be doing too, like just hanging around, or the movies etc etc. There are a bunch of other distractions, plus they dont tend to focus the same way as we used to - I played football and nothing else other than golf as it was a summer sport whereas my football was my winter sport. These days they have so many competing interests.

 

But if we want some of the real reasons it comes down to, sadly, he failings of the SFA as well as the clubs - for the most part although, again, there are other reasons.

 

The Scandinavian countries, as far as I am aware, have far better facilities than we have - there are public pitches in Copenhagen which have 8 all-weather pitches, gyms, dressing rooms, video rooms etc. The facilities are just better and more money has been spent on the infrastructure.

 

Coaching is another reason. I think it is absolutely appalling that people running professional youth systems will turn a talented player away simply because they arent physically big or strong enough. Scottish football still has a large element of that (I think elfideldo, in one of his youth team reports, mentioned that Sinclair prefers the physicaly stronger kids) which, to me, is appalling even in Scotland. Kids dont develop physically until they hit their teens anyway - yet we still over-emphasise the physical aspects at too early an age. The proportion of coaching that goes into fitness is too great at the early age groups - they may be the fittest kids on the team but if they cant control a ball or pass it 5 yards they wont amount to much.

 

Kids from 6-12 should be far more involved in simply, as you say, having fun with a football. They have fun, they keep playing. They keep playing, they will learn.

 

You mention 4 and 5-a-side. The accepted norm these days is that small-sided games for kids should be no more than 4-a-side - more than that and kids dont get enough touches. Man U have implemented this approach in their academy - their small-sided games are always 4v4.

 

But if you want a little insight into the MAJOR reason why we arent seeing the talent coming through and why we are being left behind then I will tell you a little story that Jacques Crevoisier told us when he was here in Bermuda the other week. As we all know, the French seemed to come from nowhere to win the World Cup in 1998. The reality is that those seeds were sown in the late 70's when the French introduced Clairefontaine (their national academy). They knew they were getting the WC and they completely overhauled the game but it took them 20 years to see the benefits. They also managed to get the education ministry to make football mandatory in ALL schools and they had to give each kid 2 hours a week (I think) of football. We in Scotland dont have the patience.

 

Spain ? They do the same. They saw what the Dutch did and they implemented a long term plan - according to Jacques their plan has been THIRTY (30) years in the making. These nations dont just come from nowhere, they have a vision - and we lack that vision in Scotland.

 

Another thing that the Spanish do is they have it mandatory for all schools to include Futsal (indoor football but not as simplistic as indoor 5's - far more complex game than that, despite looking easy). And you know why Futsal has made such an impact on the Spanish national team ? Because of how a Futsal court is laid out and how any players they use. You can fit 7.5 Futsal courts on a regular football pitch. Futsal is 5-a-side. If you put the Futsal players on a football pitch you would end up with a game of...... 37-a-side. So.... given that, just think how little space those Futsal players have when playing by comperison to football. Very little. Also, just think with a game that gives limited space to the players what would happen if your first touch is poor ? You lose it. Also, Futsal is so quick of a game and with so much movement that every player plays in defence AND attack. Futsal has become an integral part of the Spanish schooling system for sport.

 

Only two countries have ever won the Futsal World Cup - Brazil & Spain. And both those countries play attractive, attacking football too. Their players are very comfortable on the ball because they have a grounding in Futsal, garnered a very good first touch, vision, movement and a willingness to be a team player because, in Futsal, if you dont play as a team player you will get found out quickly !

 

The game in Scotland is playing catch up - and we are BADLY behind most other footballing nations. It needs a complete overhaul - but I dont see a "tone at the top" willing to make that happen.

 

IMHO, if we want Rangers to push the envelope with regards to producing better talent what they really need is to have a club philosophy and then have every single youth team play to that style of system. And we also need to get MORE coaches with the appropriate UEFA licencing.

Unfortunately though we, like all other Scottish clubs, are a results driven business. I also went to a symposium with a youth academy director from Man City - and one thing he said has always stuck with me (and may explain partly why Scottish clubs are flailing) is this "My team can go out and beat Man Utd 5-0 and you would think that is a success. However, it isnt. The ONLY way I am successful in my job is if I produce players who eventually end up in the 1st team". Results dont matter to them, the development of the kids is the ONLY concern for them. In fact, Man U dont allow their kids to play competitive games against other professional teams until they are U14 - they want to develop the kids in the "Man U way" without the pressures of achieving results.

 

Sorry for the rant guys - I just enjoy coaching the kids so much and have gained an incredible amount of experience and knowledge from these guys. It is fascinating stuff. At least to me it is.

 

Two points re this topic.

 

Imo the current state of Rangers and the great amount of publicity it is receiving is a godsend to the fools that run the game in Scotland as it is taking away the fact that they are ruining and running the game in Scotland into the ground with their inept and backwards look at how the game is taught,coached and run at the critical stages of development.

 

Secondly, i could'nt agree more re Rangers taking a radical stance in restructuring their development practices when it comes to youth recruitment and training.

We have a state of the art facility and imo it is not being used as it should be.

Yes we have turned out some decent talent since it's inception but with the proper recruitment,training methods and a broader change in how we view the game as a whole i see no reason why we can't turn out two or three genuinely talented players ready to press for a place in the first team annually.

 

Money spent wisely at an early age will reap the benefits required later on.

Edited June 2, 2012 by cail

[Zappa 0]

I don't think we should rename Murray Park. As someone said near the start of the thread, it's name should serve as a reminder. For me that reminder will be of both good and bad times, of both the good and bad decisions he made. If some people don't like calling it Murray Park they can just call it Auchenhowie as many already do.

 

What I care about far more is who is actually running our youth system and how they're running it. If Jim Sinclair and some of his members of staff aren't doing a top notch job of running it, then they should be replaced by more competent people. The first step is that simple because I've now heard numerous reports that this is exactly what is required.

 

I'm not complaining about any of the current young talent that we have and we do have some very good young talent. All I'm saying is that our youth system/academy can definitely be improved and the first step to improving it is to make sure that the right people are running it. Once that aspect has been tackled, then very noticeable improvements in the youth system over a period of 3 to 5 years should be expected.

 

Going off on a slight tangent here, but I thought the recent SPL decision to start up an U20 league is an extremely ill-informed concept. I've been saying for a while now that if we're not going to have a reserve league we should have an U21 league and had they taken that option I think it would have shown some clear thinking, but an U20 league is just idiotic. It'll put a lot of young SPL club players between the age of 20 and 21 in limbo if they aren't getting games for the first team at their club. Players in that small age bracket will also miss out on an U21 call-up for the national team simply because they aren't getting enough games.