Rangers and Celtic "Colt teams"

[Gribz 743]

The first thing is at least the SFL are showing a bit of movement with the need to restructure. Also their idea will mean the majority of the SPL will still play top flight football when it starts as the top league gets an expansion....as that is a positive move I only expect it to be knocked back.

 

The down side is the start date of 2015, that means the current disaster set up will spiral down wards even more in 2-3 years. Therefore whats wrong with getting it going from next season or the season after.

 

SFL hold a lot of cards now. All members must know the bad shape of the SPL so should the SFA and SPL knock this back without even review then the SFL should break away. Div 1 clubs should reject promotion. It might mean a slight loss of TV money for 1 season (or not at all if SKY dont renew) and a 2 big gates from when Celtic visit but long term they would get that back from when Rangers are in town. Also, who knows what dangers there are of entering the SPL, that league looks like its in meltdown already.

 

Im not so sure about propelling a B side into the lower league, I would have it restuctured so regional leagues are below the new Div 2 with promotion and relegation active then start our B team off in the regional league. That dangles a carrott for them to get promotion and gives them something to play for....would be benefical to have them more competitive.

[54andcounting 0]

The whole thing depends on an spl meltdown...something most 'gers fans are praying for...the sfl can show their muscle all they like but it''s absolutely crazy that the only way forward is the complete meltdown of the spl that might only take just 2 months or then again it could be as much as 2 years or perhaps a minimum of 10 years?

[der Berliner 3,245]

How about cups, can they still be drawn in the cup?

 

Nope. It's much like the early stages in europe, when teams from the same league/country can't play against one another. Would have to check how it is being dealt with at the later stages of a competition, but usually the second strings don't get that far.

 

On a sidenote, do we actually have enough people for such a scheme? Would it mean that we scrap the u19s/u21s league(s) and rear our youngsters in a more competitive environment? Right now, I doubt we'd have much joy with the rather limited resources in personnel. Then again, in two years time things might be different.

[calscot 0]

I don't see why they shouldn't meet in a cup - one of the two teams would progress if they weren't related so which one is pretty arbitrary - and at no expense to another team.

 

In the league it's a different story where the first team could gain easy points while a rival has a hard game - not only that they could lie down to another team to affect the league standings.

[ian1964 10,411]

By Chris McLaughlin Senior Football Reporter, BBC Scotland

Comments

 

Scotland's major clubs are pursuing plans for a new 16-team top tier but will not be swallowed up by the Scottish Football League.

 

All 12 SPL clubs will meet to discuss the issue with a new league of 16 top of the agenda.

 

The SFL propose a set up that would involve SPL clubs giving up their power and merging with the lower leagues.

 

But SPL sources have told BBC Scotland that there is no chance of their clubs agreeing to the plans.

 

The SPL's recent discussions on reconstruction ended in stalemate and were put on hold following the Rangers crisis.

 

Clubs believe a league of 16 is the popular choice of the fans but have always been held back by a broadcasting contract that insisted on four Old Firm matches a season.

 

However, with Rangers now in Division Three, that is no longer an issue. Another option being discussed is an SPL 2 format, with two teams of 12.

 

Clubs will meet on 3 December and there could be a show of hands. Should there be broad agreement, there may even be change as early as next season.

[Tumshie RFC 0]

I would be in favour of us having a team in the lower divisions. It gives our young players the chance to play competitive games rather than reserve games. Not sure about a 16-team top league. Would want more than 30 games per season. A 18 team top flight would be better.

 

At least the SFL are actually trying to work on something rather than the SPl sitting on their hands and doing nothing on problems that they, and they alone, have caused.

[ian1964 10,411]

From the record...

 

TOMORROW they’ll call for change like leaders of the opposition.

 

They’ll roll up at Hampden with slogans in their heads, manifestoes under their arms and soapboxes in the back of their motors.

 

They’ll put forward reasoned, logical, perhaps even compelling arguments

for change.

 

Many of those lower-league clubs want it. Almost all the fans want it. Heck, the game needs it.

 

The naysayers will state we can’t afford change. The men who claim to have vision, however, insist we can’t afford not to change.

 

Many of the blockers are likely to come from the 12 SPL clubs. And they are the power brokers. They’re also the dozen who are looking to do the dirty on reconstruction.

 

But figureheads from the SFL believe it’s time for a revamp and David Longmuir’s blueprint for the future will be unveiled to the 30 SFL clubs.

 

They say the old arguments for preserving the status quo are gone. They’ll point out the Old Firm is no longer as big a money-spinner for their clubs. They’ll insist there will be more financial carnage if we don’t change.

 

SURVIVE

 

As an SFL club, Rangers will be

represented at Hampden.

 

Charles Green won’t be there – he’s in London on business – but an Ibrox board member will be present and he will be pushing Green’s argument. And there will be plenty who’ll listen.

 

Last night Green said: “Hearts have got into financial difficulty and there were rumours in the papers that there were another couple of SPL clubs in financial difficulty so it is a time for change.

 

“Whether the SPL could survive if two clubs go out of business would be really questionable.

 

“We are just focusing on winning the Third Division and getting promotion. We are a club, we just win matches and, if you keep winning games, you will end up at the top. What the top will be called in three years, who knows?

 

“If it happens beforehand because of restructuring, or because clubs go out of business, that’s unfortunate but we had to get on with our lives and other clubs will have to do the same.”

 

Green is hardly the lone voice in the wilderness. Record Sport canvassed the opinion of fellow lower-league outfits and found plenty who agree with his assessment on the future.

 

Dunfermline boss Jim Jefferies is one. In fact, he has been in the yes camp lobbying for league surgery for the best part of 16 years.

 

Jefferies has seen both sides of the coin having managed at Hearts and Kilmarnock before now finding himself out of the SPL and in the First Division at East End Park.

 

The Pars boss has cited footballing reasons as his prime objective for an expansion of the top division,.

 

But Jefferies does confess the current cash-flow problem in the top flight is now also a factor.

 

He said: “Change was something that was talked about long before the Rangers thing happened but maybe what has happened to them and now what is happening at Hearts might get people together. Everyone keeps referring to the fact there may be other clubs toiling and might be next in line. That should send a message on its own.

 

“Back in the days when the SPL was started, Rangers and Celtic were heavily supported away from home and there was the lure for clubs of two visits a season from each of the Old Firm.

 

“But Rangers are not there now and the grounds are not always full when Celtic go away. It’s not the same case that they fill grounds as they used to.

 

“I’m not saying for a second the SPL has run its course but you can have an SPL with 16 teams and I’ve been saying this for a long time.

 

“Look at the stadium Dunfermline has got, Raith Rovers has got, Partick Thistle has got and others. There are great facilities and they are lost.

 

“Clubs are struggling and I have always said it’s the set-up which is killing some of them.

 

“The SPL can be competitive but the majority of people are getting fed up seeing the same teams all of the time, sometimes four games a season.

 

FUTURE

 

“Seldom you get four cracking games. Partick Thistle and Dunfermline drew more than 5000 last weekend and that was in the First Division.

 

“Of course, you would have to look at the make-up of the leagues but the plan should not just be dismissed.”

 

Jefferies believes the future could be brighter for the national team with an extended top division.

 

He said: “They talk about pushing youngsters through, but the SPL is a tight league and it doesn’t help producing young players for the future of Scottish football when the pressure is so intense and relegation such a big issue. A 16-team league would give some breathing space.

 

“To be fair, it’s not just about

reconstruction in terms of leagues, it’s about the distribution of cash.

 

“Also, the product is not as bad as

some people are making out and the reason why people are not going to games is simply down to one thing and that is the cost.

 

“It costs far too much to watch football, especially for a family. You are asking people to pay too much and the whole pricing structure should be capped.”

 

Hamilton gaffer Billy Reid is another who would welcome a bigger top flight. He reckons a larger top division would work because it would encourage clubs to blood more talented youngsters.

 

He said: “I’ve always been an advocate of bigger leagues in Scotland, wherever Hamilton are. It’s too cut-throat right now and it would give clubs more leeway.

 

“The way forward for Scottish football is to play younger players and a 16-team league would help us do that. Finances and budgets have to be met and maybe chairmen or chief executives won’t see it that way. It might never happen.

 

“But, purely from a manager’s point of view, a bigger league would be more stress-free and we could blood more young players. There would still be a threat of relegation from the top division. I’m in favour of a two-up, two-down system.

 

“I’m not just saying this because we’re in the First Division – I said it in the SPL – one promotion place from the First isn’t healthy. It doesn’t matter whether it is done through play-offs or whatever, it’s about what is best for Scottish football.

 

“The state Scottish football is in right now, something has to change and we have to get back to producing youngsters. I’ve been beating this drum for so long now.”

 

Reid reckons cup results in recent seasons prove there isn’t too big a gap between the SPL and First Division.

 

He said: “I’m convinced most of the First Division teams are good enough to compete in a bigger league. I’m not saying there’s not a difference, there is.

 

“But look at the recent results in cup competitions over the past five years. It doesn’t even come as a shock now if a First Division or even a Second Division side knock out an SPL team.

 

“It’s happened dozens of times now so they aren’t flukes.”

[GovanAllan 0]

And the merry go round starts again and in the end we will eventually end up right back at the square 1 again.

 

These decisions need to be taken out of the hands of the teams and left to an independent board of football people to decide.

[calscot 0]

I can't see 11 SPL clubs voting for it. Maybe half of them...