Worth of our squad

[der Berliner 3,320]

That particular valuation is exactly why I will never give any credibility to the values coming from that particular website, even though it is dB's go to site for player values

 

It fails to take into account anything such as form, demand for a player etc.

 

It is my site to go if I want to find up to date and exact data on nigh every player there is this side of Saturn's rings. They have a valuation, as have Fantasy League or the fan next to you or Mr. van Gaal himself. More often than not, I do find their valuation light years more reasonable than what you read on here or in the media, as they are apparently simply base the valuations on facts and figures. Even IF someone does not agree to their valuation, they can easily get a rough idea of the players' "probable worth" by looking at the facts provided. Try find that info elsewhere! (Now, where is that smiley again, ah ...)

[jhunter 0]

In what respect? I'd be looking for good money for McKay as I agree with the OP that he is a genuine talent and I don't think we have even come close to seeing his best.

 

Sorry i was referring to the £131k not the poster's version

[craig 5,199]

It is my site to go if I want to find up to date and exact data on nigh every player there is this side of Saturn's rings. They have a valuation, as have Fantasy League or the fan next to you or Mr. van Gaal himself. More often than not, I do find their valuation light years more reasonable than what you read on here or in the media, as they are apparently simply base the valuations on facts and figures. Even IF someone does not agree to their valuation, they can easily get a rough idea of the players' "probable worth" by looking at the facts provided. Try find that info elsewhere! (Now, where is that smiley again, ah ...)

 

So McKay is "probably worth" 188k.....

 

I don't need to find inaccurate player valuations elsewhere. If I find something to be inaccurate then I wont be using that particular source. One reason I don't go to trsnfrmrkt....

Edited February 12, 2016 by craig

[calscot 0]

So McKay is "probably worth" 188k.....

 

Until someone wants to buy him or the club increase his salary, the answer is, yes. That will probably be close to his book value. I'm not sure if players still count as an asset on the balance sheet, but if it is, I think that will be close to what is in the accounts.

 

Obviously he has shown his worth is more than his book value - hence he will be offered a new, increased contract soon, and I'm sure that website will update his valuation accordingly...

 

I think the more pressing question is how accurate are the wage assumptions of the site?

[calscot 0]

No it isn't. It is naïve to think that club's value their players based on salary multiplied by length of contract left multiplied by any other factor that is included. I hold to my belief that just because you use an "objective" starting point doesn't mean that it makes it accurate. Objectivity takes the guessing out of things, but if the inputs are inappropriate or flawed then the outputs will be worthless too. You only need to look at the valuations for McKay to see that the "objective starting point" is flawed. No way is McKay worth only 188k.

 

Not sure how Hibs wanted more money for O'Halloran when he was St Johnstone's player Even using his salary as a justification is weak, IMHO. A player's salary doesn't necessarily have a strong correlation to his transfer value. Correlation, yes. But a significant determinant in his valuation ? Not in my opinion.

 

It may be tangible, but tangible doesn't make it accurate. The same way as objective doesn't make it right. Using these numbers aren't making a well considered assessment either - they ignore the qualitative factors in player transfer values, which makes them almost as worthless as the numbers being plucked out of the air. Buzzwords mean little when they still don't provide a great deal of accuracy.

 

Of all those Rangers players andy quoted I would contend that almost ALL of them are being incorrectly valued by transfrmrkt - so you can use their numbers all you like, but any transfers out of the Club, I can almost guarantee you, will not be even close to the numbers they are using.

 

I'm not sure why you're struggling with this, as an accountant I'd expect you to be used to this kind of stuff.

 

Maybe it's not the best analogy but maybe you need to think of it as like a classic car valuation site. It gives a generic value before you add in condition, mileage, accessories, restoration quality, and provenance. Because no car is the same and each will go for a different price even depending on how good the haggling is, the time of year and how much interest is, or some guy needs money quick. That doesn't make the site inaccurate or lacking in value.

 

You might know a car that has a certain valuation but know it was a former Le Mans winner owned by James Dean, and then laugh ludicrously at the valuation... Or you know another one that is crumbling to bits with rust and everything is rotten or broken.

 

However, if the car is pretty average you know what price to pay, if it's not you start with that value and adjust from that, up or down, depending on the factors.

 

In your paradigm, there is no such thing as accuracy and the price is what is agreed, as a number plucked out the air. In that case, I don't know what you're arguing about. It's strange to argue how accurate something is, if you don't believe that accuracy actually exists.

[craig 5,199]

Until someone wants to buy him or the club increase his salary, the answer is, yes. That will probably be close to his book value. I'm not sure if players still count as an asset on the balance sheet, but if it is, I think that will be close to what is in the accounts.

 

Obviously he has shown his worth is more than his book value - hence he will be offered a new, increased contract soon, and I'm sure that website will update his valuation accordingly...

 

I think the more pressing question is how accurate are the wage assumptions of the site?

 

Of course the answer isn't yes.

 

If you are hanging your hat on "until someone wants to buy him" then the valuation is zero. His book value is absolutely irrelevant to the topic at hand, which is how much is he worth.

 

Pointless exercise debating it with you. If you believe Barrie McKay is worth 188k then have at it. I would willingly bet my mortgage that should the Club get an offer of 188k it would be laughed out of hand, which means he isn't worth 188k.

[craig 5,199]

I'm not sure why you're struggling with this, as an accountant I'd expect you to be used to this kind of stuff.

 

Maybe it's not the best analogy but maybe you need to think of it as like a classic car valuation site. It gives a generic value before you add in condition, mileage, accessories, restoration quality, and provenance. Because no car is the same and each will go for a different price even depending on how good the haggling is, the time of year and how much interest is, or some guy needs money quick. That doesn't make the site inaccurate or lacking in value.

 

You might know a car that has a certain valuation but know it was a former Le Mans winner owned by James Dean, and then laugh ludicrously at the valuation... Or you know another one that is crumbling to bits with rust and everything is rotten or broken.

 

However, if the car is pretty average you know what price to pay, if it's not you start with that value and adjust from that, up or down, depending on the factors.

 

In your paradigm, there is no such thing as accuracy and the price is what is agreed, as a number plucked out the air. In that case, I don't know what you're arguing about. It's strange to argue how accurate something is, if you don't believe that accuracy actually exists.

 

You are right, the analogy isn't very good. But even using it, the whole point of the exercise is to work out how much a player is worth, no ? So using his salary and his length of contract may give you an "objective starting point" but it gets you no closer to how much the player is worth. It fails to take into consideration supply and demand, desire of player to leave, financial condition of club, and a whole host of other qualitative factors. Therefore, the valuation that you see on trsnfrmrkt for most players is, quite frankly, a pile of shite.

 

If you want to defend it go right ahead. Me ? I will look at their valuations of players such as McKay, Tav, Waghorn, Foderingham, Holt and be very, very confident that their valuation of those players is complete and utter tripe. And that is only 5 players from one team. Extrapolate that across all teams and what do you have ? You have a database of largely inaccurate valuations. Again, defend it all you like but it makes it completely meaningless to me.

 

Anyway, back on topic with reference to Andy's valuations.... I think that what we CAN take away from Warburton's dealings thus far is that, as per his "value" buzzword, he has managed to get very decent "value" from pretty much all of his signings. Their contracts will be valued at lower than the players we lost whilst performing well in the league and, for those we paid a transfer fee for, probably all of them will have seen their true value increased since coming to the Club.

 

All in all, positive thus far from Warburton.

[der Berliner 3,320]

So McKay is "probably worth" 188k.....

 

I don't need to find inaccurate player valuations elsewhere. If I find something to be inaccurate then I wont be using that particular source. One reason I don't go to trsnfrmrkt....

 

I see no reason why you would want to go down the ridicule route here? The pros and cons are there for all to see, whether you take them on or not.

 

NB ... should a scout of say Werder Bremen look at Barrie McKay, what sort of valuation you would assume he will place on the head of an untried Scottish second tier player with potential ... or so say the locals.

Edited February 12, 2016 by der Berliner

[craig 5,199]

I see no reason why you would want to go down the ridicule route here? The pros and cons are there for all to see, whether you take them on or not.

 

NB ... should a scout of say Werder Bremen look at Barrie McKay, what sort of valuation you would assume he will place on the head of an untried Scottish second tier player with potential ... or so say the locals.

 

I'm not ridiculing you dB, but I wont apologise for ridiculing trnsfrmkt.

 

I see very few pros in an obviously flawed method of calculating values.

 

I don't know how much Werder Bremeb would value him at - but I am absolutely certain that Rangers wouldn't sell him to Werder Bremen for 188k - and that. in itself, should tell you as much as you need to know about their valuations.

 

With that, I'm out of this debate because it is tiring me having to explain that their values aren't worth the bandwidth they are held on.

[der Berliner 3,320]

I'm not ridiculing you dB, but I wont apologise for ridiculing trnsfrmkt.

 

I see very few pros in an obviously flawed method of calculating values.

 

I don't know how much Werder Bremeb would value him at - but I am absolutely certain that Rangers wouldn't sell him to Werder Bremen for 188k - and that. in itself, should tell you as much as you need to know about their valuations.

 

With that, I'm out of this debate because it is tiring me having to explain that their values aren't worth the bandwidth they are held on.

 

Just in case ... I was bemused why you see the need to ridicule TM. Football player value is way beyond a simple Marrakesh morning market bartering excercise. As I pointed out, TM most likely values the players because of age, (international & national) experience, the country they come from and the league they play in. Perhaps some development money stuff too. There is sure a lot of variables coming in after that, but if you disregard the TM approach, on what would you base the potential fee of say Derek Lyle of Queen of the South then?