Danny Wilson

[Tannochsidebear 2,322]

We probably do need better quality in there for next season, but I think the main issue is how we play. Putting a Davie Weir -- or any other legend of the past -- in there is not going to eradicate our problems. Sure, we may be better organised at set-pieces etc., but we'll still be countered against with most of the team caught up-field. The great CB's of the past were at their best with bodies in front of them; we don't play like that. It's going to take a different type of player to see improvements, not a old-fashioned CB. Wilson and Weir played well together, but they also had a lot of help from the team, with FB's staying back and central-midfielders shielding; we don't have that now -- although we desperately need someone to shield (properly)!

 

Both Wilson and Kiernan can look very good at times -- exactly what we need -- and then at other times unbelievably poor; it's a consistency problem with both of them. I think they are the right type of player. However, certainly a player that can command the defense would be of great benefit.

 

I dont think I agree on this one Rousseau. While it is certainly true that we have been caught out on the counter attack more times than we should given the positioning of our team in advanced positions, it feels to me that we have lost a lot more goals through bad decision making by the two centre backs, bad starting positions by them, bad marking at set pieces (do we play a zonal defence at corners or are our two centre backs just never near to their man?), and poor tackling. Yes at times a proper DM would have stopped the attacks before it got to our guys at the back, but I cant agree that a Davie Weir type would not be a vast improvement on these two. What Weir lacked in pace, he made up for in vision - he could see where the threat was going to come from and either get there himself or shout to his partner to get him. Commanding inside his own box at set pieces as well which our two would never be accused of.

 

The fact we play such an advanced and attacking game doesnt have the slightest bearing on the number of goals we have conceded from corners/free kicks where the opponent has simply outjumped/outmanouvered our centre halfs and scored. I would gladly give up the error-strewn passes upfield from our "ball-playing CH" in favour of a proper centre half who defends first and gives the ball simply to the man in front or to the side of him. If CH have to be creative, then our midfield has failed.

[Rousseau 9,594]

I dont think I agree on this one Rousseau. While it is certainly true that we have been caught out on the counter attack more times than we should given the positioning of our team in advanced positions, it feels to me that we have lost a lot more goals through bad decision making by the two centre backs, bad starting positions by them, bad marking at set pieces (do we play a zonal defence at corners or are our two centre backs just never near to their man?), and poor tackling. Yes at times a proper DM would have stopped the attacks before it got to our guys at the back, but I cant agree that a Davie Weir type would not be a vast improvement on these two. What Weir lacked in pace, he made up for in vision - he could see where the threat was going to come from and either get there himself or shout to his partner to get him. Commanding inside his own box at set pieces as well which our two would never be accused of.

 

I agree with this, and said as much in the post. An organiser would be of great benefit at set-pieces etc., and I'd hope to see such a CB bought in the summer. But, overall a Weir-type is not the ideal type of player we need.

 

The fact we play such an advanced and attacking game doesnt have the slightest bearing on the number of goals we have conceded from corners/free kicks where the opponent has simply outjumped/outmanouvered our centre halfs and scored. I would gladly give up the error-strewn passes upfield from our "ball-playing CH" in favour of a proper centre half who defends first and gives the ball simply to the man in front or to the side of him. If CH have to be creative, then our midfield has failed.

 

Again, yes, I agree, but a better quality CB would improve that immediately, being better at dominating opponents and better at passing. Just because they make mistakes doesn't mean they're the wrong type of player. I believe they are the right type of players (Kiernan and Wilson), just not of the required quality; acquiring similar, but better quality CB/CH in the summer would be better than buying a Weir-type player -- IMO, of course!

Edited May 11, 2016 by Rousseau

[Tannochsidebear 2,322]

We might be going in different ways to get to the same answer here R, I have no problem with athletic ball playing centre backs per se, it is the quality we have chosen to get us out of the 2nd tier that I don't believe is good enough, and it seems nor do you.

 

I would rather have a morph of Weir & Bougherra but those types of CH are not easy to find within our budget. Weir for his reading, organising, strength & aerial ability, and Boogy's pace and eye for a forward pass and keen to get forward. If you get a player with the right blend of these qualities into Warburtons formation we would be onto a winner.

 

Unfortunately we seem to have the opposite!

 

I am confident Warburton will sort this out over the next six weeks or so.

[pete 2,499]

I remember a goal from a set piece when Wilson was marking the scorer. Wilson was a yard outside the back post and the scorer scored from about 2 yards outside the near post. If this is our defence for next season then god help us. Even Spurs U20's scored 3 times today.

I will say one thing we can't afford to let Hibs score 3 times.

[MacK1950 2,253]

Remember Wilson has already renaged on a place in the SPL by leaving Hearts his level is the Championship.

[craig 5,199]

I remember a goal from a set piece when Wilson was marking the scorer. Wilson was a yard outside the back post and the scorer scored from about 2 yards outside the near post. If this is our defence for next season then god help us. Even Spurs U20's scored 3 times today.

I will say one thing we can't afford to let Hibs score 3 times.

 

You can bet that the Spurs U20's are probably better than 90% of the Premiership sides we will face.

[craig 5,199]

Remember Wilson has already renaged on a place in the SPL by leaving Hearts his level is the Championship.

 

I think that is a bit unfair on the lad. You are quite correct that he stayed in the Championship rather than move up with Hearts - but look at the flip side of that particular coin. Rangers are a far, far bigger club than Hearts and we also would have been paying him more than he was on at Hearts too. The likelihood that we would get promotion was high, though not guaranteed, so are you suggesting that he thought "Let me sign with Rangers because they aren't in the Premiership, the Championship is my level.... and if Rangers get promoted I will look for another way to remain away from the Premiership".

 

This same lad that "reneged" on Premiership football has played in the Premiership previously and has also played in the Champions League.

 

The suggestion that he didn't go up with Hearts because he knew he had "found his level" is baffling to me.

[pete 2,499]

Remember Wilson has already renaged on a place in the SPL by leaving Hearts his level is the Championship.

 

After his performances in the championship this season even that could be questioned.

[pete 2,499]

I think that is a bit unfair on the lad. You are quite correct that he stayed in the Championship rather than move up with Hearts - but look at the flip side of that particular coin. Rangers are a far, far bigger club than Hearts and we also would have been paying him more than he was on at Hearts too. The likelihood that we would get promotion was high, though not guaranteed, so are you suggesting that he thought "Let me sign with Rangers because they aren't in the Premiership, the Championship is my level.... and if Rangers get promoted I will look for another way to remain away from the Premiership".

 

This same lad that "reneged" on Premiership football has played in the Premiership previously and has also played in the Champions League.

 

The suggestion that he didn't go up with Hearts because he knew he had "found his level" is baffling to me.

 

Craig I seem to remember you were complaining about him at some point. No?

[craig 5,199]

Craig I seem to remember you were complaining about him at some point. No?

 

Yes, I did. And I still do. He has talent but he lets himself down with lapses in concentration and some other failings too.

 

However, that bears absolutely no relation to the lad himself believing he has found his level. Which is what it seems, to me at least, that Mack was implying.

 

Read what I said above pete - and you will see that I am not projecting any of my own personal opinions of Danny Wilson in there - I am merely looking at it from what would possibly be the player's perspective.