A Horse With No Name

You know if you asked some Rangers fans i'll bet quite a few would say "just put the names in a hat and feeking draw one..." Well, it's getting that way!

They say we're young and we don't care, before too long our troubles... ....babe, i got you babe...

They go on these programmes and are practically in meltdown WE DON'T NEED RANGERS, WE DON'T NEED RANGERS, WE DON'T NEED RANGERS! Just wish Dalziel or whoever would just say to them "what the fekk are you all on talking about them for then" You get the feeling certain institutions will be filling up if we go to the wall. They'll be sitting back with their straight-jackets on saying WE DON'T NEED RANGERS, WE DON'T NEED... just as the nurse sticks a needle in their arm...

I knew you were - i did try and put a smiley at the end of my remark but i was on the blackberry so couldn't put the tonque out smiley for some reason. Bloody blackberry is running very bloody slow too must take it in to shop and get them to sort it... Yes, casey your meaning wasn't lost on me!

I've forgotten more about Marxism than these cunts will ever know!

Amazing how many Celtic fans are allowed on Radio Clyde to talk about Rangers and state the above without them being asked IF YOU DON'T WHY ARE YOU ALL ON TALKING ABOUT THEM! Still no mention of them cheating the Taxman AYE IT'S NO FAIR NA'ER IT IS

I mind drinking with a few guys in Paisley RW and they said he was in that pub getting some stories from old timers and apparently only got them half a pint. The guy said if RM had been at the Somme the only rifling he would have done would've been through dead soldiers pockets! :-) probably not true, but it did add weight to all the other tales...

He's (from my experience) a skin flint - tbh I think he's been wearing that jacket since Graeme Souness arrived! Jesus the stories I've heard about him. No doubt about his credentials but I stopped getting the Historian ages and that last book of his was a rip off, not only had he not corrected the mistakes pointed out to him, there was actually more! Christ he had players scoring in games they hadn't played, playing in games after they left.... He's preferable to Mason but AT WHAT PRICE? I don't trust people that covet money to that degree! In my last dealings with him he said how great my file was, saying how much time it saved him and asked me if I had a ticket for the game then offered me one of his seats - I was ready to head and he stuck out his hand for 20 sobs! :-). No problem parting with the cash but I've had guys on the bru wanting to buy me pints etc. Money, seems to be the driving force for far too many folk!

I'm beginning to wonder if the dream was in fact a nightmare as I've just read the RST are recommending Robert McElroy to be nominated as some sort of Rep! Anybody who's had any dealings with this man will know what a penny pincher he is! If this guy volunteers for anything he'll be looking to earn cash! I would hope this role isn't money paying but I just can't see it! It's really looking bad this dream some of us have. I'm a lifetime member of the RST but I think (to allay fears) they must rule out those that arouse suspicion, from positions of power, and that means McElroy and others! Would I fork out my life's savings to line the pockets of McElroy and his wee cliche of Tories... If push came to shove I'd get into bed with the devil to save Rangers, but I suspect unless they stand back from positions of power if Paul Murray is successful, the amount of cash fans put forward will drop NOT RISE to £15-30M. If PM gets the bid (and I hope he does) these people need to act for the greater good! Maybe Brian Kennedy would be a better option after all? God, I'm getting a sore head. :sowsuser:

I've NEVER used the term sir in connection with him what others call him is of no interest to me. I do though feel we need (if we survive) to get his name away from our club so need to rename Auchenhowie after one of people who never shamed the club - I'd go for Wilton myself! If Rangers don't survive and loose the history the for me it won't matter a toss I won't be supporting a newco! Any money I would have spent on Rangers would be spent abroad in extra holidays.

Another factor to be thrown in is world-wide support, Hamburg are a great club but because they have a good economy their good people aren't all disappearing to other areas of the world! The German people also wouldn't fall for this reverse sectarianism where to PROVE you didn't hate Catholics you had to employ more of them than their % of population. Their Tax people wouldn't have shyed away from taking Celtic on re Lying about gate receipts for fear of fallout. So many areas where Hamburg and Rangers aren't on level footing mate...

Christ has Glasgow's population dropped that much! There are other factors on top of those you mentioned. Aren't prices at German grounds set at levels agreed with fans as part of their structure? In my opinion our fans wouldn't (and haven't) kicked up a fuss over prices, as long as they were actively engaged and kept in the picture should we start playing youngsters (with a spine of experience coming from players like Sir David of Weir) then I'm sure they'd be happy that things were being addressed and not just this fool hardy approach of relying on CL money. Also, isn't the German economy in far better nick than most? Also fan satisfaction is better in Germay as they aren't ignored in the way we are re agenda against Rangers and us the fans! Example: If fans were treated with contempt by ticket staff / Stewards / Police then people would be sacked or in the case of the Police answers sought at the highest level! The Police in Germany are brand new and only adopt heavy handed measures when everything else has been tried! Compare German Police to those in Spain / Portugal - feeking aniimals! Zappa, I'm not arguing for 100% fan ownership, for me starting at 5-10% and working towards 51% would start the process I think is necessary IN SO MANY WAYS NECESSARY!

Thanks much appreciated. Yes I now remember the OW quote, the song lyrics are in that area but maybe I've got the band wrong - lost the tape when moving house...

The outcome is always achieved by democratic decision making - if fans only own 25% of the club they should expect 25% of the vote. As for fans that buy season tickets or go to a handful of games, they should have Reps too because no one who puts money into Rangers should be ignored. As for these stores / businesses I'm totally against the analogy. If Rangers FC were a simple business the store would have went bust long ago - tell me of a branch of Tesco that allows outsiders too come in and call the 'customers' dirty orange barstools, or would sit back while newspapers and scumbags like Keevins etc continually slate their customers? Customers of stores get something material for parting with cash - what we get in return for parting with cash is something completely different Darthter... ;-)

As you say a spread of opinions is good - I'd go further and say lively debate and argument is good - the thing that matters most is the structure of fan participation. I'd argue the only worthwhile structure is the old style Soviets, with every board member accompanied by a couple of delegates who made sure the board member wasn't ignoring his or her mandate. The board members would have to change at regular intervals as would the delegates. There would be regular meetings of us 'lesser shareholders' where the minutes were given of the board meetings. There's lots of ways to ensure our needs are met and our concerns addressed but for me the most important thing is that there's continual change of personnel to ensure we don't get certain people hugging power and doing a Joe Stalin! Some may say "look what happened to the Russian soviets but the simple answer to that is how could their Soviets have developed and grown in confidence when the Whites and counter revolutionaries where occupying most of their time and killing the workers! All about structure - same as team tactics, variation is important to ensure everyone is heard and not just those with imposing personalities. WE'D ALL HAVE A PART TO PLAY.

This gets more and more complicated in terms of the ramifications! I recall reading in one of the broadsheets about a week back Withey saying he left that company and was ashamed of the part he (without knowing it) played... that would seem to suggest they'd win a court case? Will it act as a spur for the two bidders (maybe the intention?) Will HMRC want more or want to defer their decision? Can someone delete my related thread please.

Not totally sure the point you're making but one thing I'd like to return is an 'if' scenario. I'd say that if the model that's in place there in Hamburg was in place here with Rangers and if they had the support we have (not just in Glasgow) in place in Germany then personally I feel the future would be promising for both our clubs. I know you and every Rangers fan with half a brain is as concerned as I am about our situation but I remember a good socialist pal of mine giving me a tape of a band (think they were called The The) and there was a great set of lyrics about the stars being at their brightest when you're lying in the gutter, for me we should never loose sight of the potential Rangers FC (in the right hands) has. For me only fan ownership will let us realise that potential. I apologise if my views on this seem arrogant when discussing the current situation - my only excuse is that I feel time along with an open mind has given me a wisdom. There you go, an apology but nothing humble about it. ;-) I may be wrong but for me it looks like developing into Groundhog Day all over again.

The less options you have the easier the choice - that's why they whittled it down to three bidders! If even D&P understand that then surely it's obvious? When I go into the shop to buy a bike it takes me an eternity - the process gets simpler because I whittle it down to 3 or 4 but when I get it down to 2 then it's sorted pretty quick!

What are the ramifications of that?

They will also be there to insure the board don't use 'iffy' business practices!

As did Whyte! There's a lot of guesswork in your write up there so I'll give you some too! I think they did have the £500k I just think their main concern was not giving these thieves (Admin) more excuses to drag their feet, ie they understand the importance of speed! To prove my point (well, it's how I see it) they've stated TBK's were in a good position and hoped they'd reconsider! Some body is gonna have to force these people to walk away - if Millar withdraws don't be surprised if they find more pre texts to stall! If these guys were painters and decorators we'd have seen them in crimewatch!

Re them not having success. That can be misleading in terms of who owns and controls a club! What it comes down to is ambition and that's where your linkage falls short. As a fanbase we are very ambitious and would never settle for mediocrity. I feel the only way to plug the financial gap between what we pay good players and our income is to increase the capacity at Ibrox. Now, before folk rush to let me know we're skint I DO KNOW THAT! What it will come down to is a realistic appraisal of our situation and that means a good manger and playing youngsters for quite a few seasons to finance that, it'll mean the manager and board coming out at the outset to make it clear a period without trophies (probably) lay ahead. Fans need to look at the situation realistically and if they really want success they need to play a canny game - there is nothing Rangers do better than playing the underdogs and the right attitude can pay huge dividends. If the fans don't like it then we should give them the choice of paying some sort of extra levy or do it our way. You get what you pay for in this world, and for far too long our fans have been DEMANDING success by spending money we don't really have - we either have a medium to long term view or we continue down the same road that leads to the same place! In other words we'll see just how ambitious our fans are - TIME FOR A REALITY CHECK!

Yes, that's the important bit, but I suspect the others want liquidation and ONLY AFTER D&P TOLD THE OTHER TWO to put forward PR, only then did these other two go on about the importance of keeping our history! If Ng was really a Rangers man he'd not have to be told by these chancers the Administrators!

I agree to disagree.

The level of control we got would've equated with the level of financial support we put forward. The pledges amounted just over £13m so we'd've had a big say! Also bd, I feel HMRC would've been very accommodating had the fans been at the forefront - I feel (unlike the media) they understood that in no way were we the Rangers support at fault for Murray's control of the club and that had they been easy on us they could put that forward as justified rationale for an easy approach. Now, we just don't know... Will they have suspected Whyte involvement with the yanks? Will they be hard hearted if they think Whyte will be getting cash for SPENDING £1? Fan involvement would have laid the ground for an easier way out for HMRC.