WS or PLG?

[Whosthedado 1,522]

Another poll that will split this board right down the middle I am guessing. WS by a long way for me. PLG was a complete disaster and although he is now doing far better with PSG in France IIRC he had TWO seasons with them battling relegation before he turned them around. We would have finished at least 4th if he had stayed IMO. At Ibrox you can't afford to have 2 mediocre seasons and say 'oh well it doesn't matter' The Ferguson affair was just a smoke screen for PLG's quick exit

[Leppardized2001 0]

Definitely Smith for this bear. Was an open secret for months the PLG was coming to Rangers, so in that time frame you would have thought Le Guen would have done his homework on Scottish football, identified issues with the team, scouted players he thought were suitable to fill those positions and gone for them.

 

Someone mentioned about not identifying our defensive problems at the time, but 2 of his signings were Karl Svensson and Sasa Papac, 2 centre halfs, so he had obviously spotted the problem, just signed the wrong players to rectify it. To me it appears he signed the right players positional wise, just the wrong ones for our league. I have no doubt that Karl Svensson, Lionel Leitizi, Libor Sionko, Filip Sebo, Sasa Papac and Jeremy Clement are good players, but apart from Papac and Clement they seemed ill suited for the Scottish game.

 

Smith came in, made some astute signings based on his better knowledge of the Scottish/British game and 'steadied' the ship as it were. In his 1st full season back he almost led us to a quadruple, finishing up with the 2 domestic cup competitions.

 

If you look at Le Guen at PSG, when he took over they were 17th in Ligue 1 and he got them upto 15th by end of season. The following season they finished 16th, sitting in the relegation zone for most of the season. This season they've been hovering round 2nd and 3rd in the league, but I feel this is mainly due to PSG's summer signing strategy of signing older established French internationals such as Claude Makelele and Ludovic Giuly to complement the younger players they have. To say that he has been a success back in France would be pushing things a bit far when you look at his record since his return.

[CammyF 6,897]

The point Cal was responding too was that PLG was not backed in the same manner as Smith. It is not that Smith was backed to a greater extent but that he could spend more because he brought more it (perhaps indirectly) through player sales.

 

He is correct in that.

 

You are correct in that he should have spent more wisely, but Calscot was just pointing out another one of the excuses for PLG does not stand up to scrutiny.

 

The point I was trying to make is that PLG wanted an extra �£300,000 required to buy Elmander and was refused as Martin Bain had already agreed a fee for Sebo (�£300,000 less than Elmander). PLG really wanted Elmander but had to settle for Sebo.

 

Again, it is all hypithetical (sp), but IMO Elmander would have offered more than Sebo for Rangers and as he was PLG's first choice, SDM and Bain should have backed the manager, gone that extra mile, or �£300,000 to get the player the manager wanted.

 

Cammy F

[gisabeer 409]

If David Murray had backed PLG the way he has WS in the transfer market, things could have gone differently.

 

The whole BF v PLG affair is something that we'll never know the full / real story to. Other than knowing that SDM was willing to back PLG all the way if PLG agreed to commit to Rangers for the entire 3 years of his contract. PLG opted not to give this commitment, we all know the rest.

 

I said at the time the biggest SDM and PLG made was not insisting on having a 'Rangers' or 'Scotsman' on his backroom staff. When DA took over, he insisted on John Greig helping him and giving input. Another failing of PLG was to address the defensive frailties at Rangers, everyone could see those and it was something that WS addressed immediatley.

 

Not an easy answer, but given that WS has taken us to the UEFA Cup Final (as well has having a decent CL run last season) and within touching distance of a treble, his record is apparently better than PLG. PLG was probably the wrong manager at the wrong time for Rangers. he is undoubtadly a talented coach, but the French clubs are set up differently from Rangers. At Lyon and PSG he has inherited established youth set-ups and both clubs have directors of football who solely deal with identifying and signing players. At Rangers, PLG had Bain to deal with.

 

Cammy F

The major problem i have with smith is that win lose or draw his sides arent worth watching.

 

I care about the manner in which we play. Smith does not. under him we have no dignity and command little respect.

[calscot 0]

 

 

How does money coming in, change in any way the money he spent. If he spent 20 million then he spent 20 million no matter how much came in.

 

The point is that SDM did not "bank roll" WS more than Le Guen. If Le Guen had brought in a Boumsong and sold him at Christmas for 8M he'd have been given that money by Murray - it's his MO.

 

Alan Hutton was considered second choice to Bardsley under PLG and it was only under Smith he flourished and became an asset. Cuellar was bought for 2M by Smith and was allowed to flourish into an 8M player.

 

In the current climate, you need to "make" your assets to have money to spend on the team as a whole and PLG did little in that department. Not only that, you need to improve your players to play for the team and I can't think of a single player who improved under Le Guen while MacGregor, Hutton, Broadfoot, Weir, Cuellar, Bougherra, Papac and Cousin all improved under Smith.

 

The total money expenditure\losswill be different but the fact that we should have got 20 million of talent does not change one bit. Did we get that?

 

20M sounds like a lot but in today's circumstances it's just one to three Premiership players. So yes, considering the number of players, we definitely got that. 20M is like about 6M only five or more years ago.

 

I am with all the guy's who think PLG should have been given more time for the same reasons the others have already stated.

 

I think Le Guen has definitely got talent but he approached Rangers in a half arsed way, ballsed it up and then quickly lost his appetite. He became the managerial equivalent of Boyd or perhaps Cousin.

 

Like a bad navigator, he was too arrogant to admit his mistakes and ploughed on in completely the wrong direction.

 

Criticism of his decisions was far easier to do than under Smith, and the latter at least saw some very obvious stuff about the team.

 

PLG was so bad and making so obviously bad decisions that it is not out of the question a fan could have taken his job and not done much worse. However, not many fans could stay within a few points of Celtic, be 10 points or more ahead of the rest, get to a UEFA final and do well in the cups.

[Super_Ally 0]

The point I was trying to make is that PLG wanted an extra �£300,000 required to buy Elmander and was refused as Martin Bain had already agreed a fee for Sebo (�£300,000 less than Elmander). PLG really wanted Elmander but had to settle for Sebo.

 

Again, it is all hypithetical (sp), but IMO Elmander would have offered more than Sebo for Rangers and as he was PLG's first choice, SDM and Bain should have backed the manager, gone that extra mile, or �£300,000 to get the player the manager wanted.

 

Cammy F

 

Elmander is starting to look overrated now he's at Bolton isnit he.

 

So your �£300k short of Elmander and the next one down on your list is Sebo? IS there no in between. From Swedish international to Footballing Impostor?

 

It's not all black and white. Sure you can point fingers at Bain, Murray even Ferguson. But at the end of the day, it all amounts to excuses.

 

The disgusting disregard that PLG showed the Rangers job should see him have far fewer supporters. His arrogant approach to managing in Scotland and his woeful inability to even accept or fix the obvious problems in his squad leaves me baffled as to why such an incompetent (at Rangers) manager gets a relatively easy ride.

 

Right idea. Wrong man.

[CammyF 6,897]

Elmander is starting to look overrated now he's at Bolton isnit he.

 

So your �£300k short of Elmander and the next one down on your list is Sebo? IS there no in between. From Swedish international to Footballing Impostor?

 

It's not all black and white. Sure you can point fingers at Bain, Murray even Ferguson. But at the end of the day, it all amounts to excuses.

 

The disgusting disregard that PLG showed the Rangers job should see him have far fewer supporters. His arrogant approach to managing in Scotland and his woeful inability to even accept or fix the obvious problems in his squad leaves me baffled as to why such an incompetent (at Rangers) manager gets a relatively easy ride.

 

Right idea. Wrong man.

 

 

Can't and won't argue with that Super Ally, but just thought that PLG was let down in the transfer market as he had identified players and IIRC, only Clement could be considered as his 'first choice'.

 

As I said earlier in the thread, PLG at Lyon and now at PSG, had a director of football working on getting the correct players into those clubs, and both have a youth academy that is supplying a steady flow of players to complement the first team squad. Completely different scenario from what he encountered at Ibrox.

 

Cammy F

[Gazza_8 233]

Smith by an absolute donkey dick's length.

 

Even if Smith had proven to be a mistake that does not mean we go back to the previous even bigger mistake.

 

Irrespective of his performance at PSG which means fuck all to us, PLG was the absolute worst Rangers manager by some stretch.

 

Whatever excuses people want to make for the man, he was criminally incompetent and if players showed the same lack of preparation for their role they would rightly be lambasted.

 

I pity anyone who still yearns for Le Flop, but it also ires me to regularly read the misty eyed bullshit about him on Rangers forums.

 

I see absolutely no basis for the blind faith "but he'll come good" arguements you regularly read.

 

Technically, Durrant was out worst ever manager.

 

He had a 100% losing record.

[Super_Ally 0]

Technically, Durrant was out worst ever manager.

 

He had a 100% losing record.

 

Lol, did he ever hold the full title though? Or was it caretaker manager etc? :box: