andy steel 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 and for many who see it as acceptable (and I note you don't, and also accept what you say with regards to the old gent being punched) it is an underlying disease that starts at childhood. I don't agree with that at all. I've never been in any bother, and been raised to respect police/authority figures all my days. I can say, though, that the treatment I've seen and received when in my alter-ego as a trouble making football hooligan (actually just a fan) has turned me entirely against these types of people - they want all the powers and react along fascistic lines should anyone DARE to react with anything other than craven grovelling. You can't expect people to simply take a beating on the grounds that they might cause trouble for Rangers. If they are starting a fight I accept your premise but not if someone else wades into you for no good reason. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wija 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I don't agree with that at all. I've never been in any bother, and been raised to respect police/authority figures all my days. I can say, though, that the treatment I've seen and received when in my alter-ego as a trouble making football hooligan (actually just a fan) has turned me entirely against these types of people - they want all the powers and react along fascistic lines should anyone DARE to react with anything other than craven grovelling. You can't expect people to simply take a beating on the grounds that they might cause trouble for Rangers. If they are starting a fight I accept your premise but not if someone else wades into you for no good reason. I saw no one wading into the idiots throwing the chairs. As stated I agree that the old boy being hit was bang out of order. The shame is that there is a minority who believe that they are above the law, and that they can react however they want and be beyond reproach. It is a blight not just in our fanbase but throughout all of football, but we are the ones who are under the microscope. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexscottislegend 2,059 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 I saw no one wading into the idiots throwing the chairs. As stated I agree that the old boy being hit was bang out of order. we are the ones who are under the microscope. Because of that I'm worried about the Seville game. Might be an idea not to take any tickets, then if there is trouble they cannot blame the club. Tough on anyone who has made travel plans but this time it is too important for us not to be above reproach. Even a heavy fine could cripple us. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 The shame is that there is a minority who believe that they are above the law, and that they can react however they want and be beyond reproach. There is an element of that, but the biggest problem is one that rbr has already mentioned here which is that a lot of the fans are drunk when they get to the match. Drink just completely changes people & generally makes them more likely to get involved in trouble that they would normally avoid. It's something that can't be avoided because if 2000 fans travel abroad you can be sure that AT LEAST half of them are going to be drinking all afternoon. Something else which maybe has a bearing is that a lot of people drink vodka & red bull these days and I know from experience that drinking that stuff gets you completely wired. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wija 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 And the drinking culture in Scotland is far bigger than anywhere else I have ever been. And as much as we all think its funny, it is the ruin of our nation. Youngsters who could have been great sports men and women ruined by bevvie. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zappa 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Because of that I'm worried about the Seville game. Might be an idea not to take any tickets, then if there is trouble they cannot blame the club. Tough on anyone who has made travel plans but this time it is too important for us not to be above reproach. Even a heavy fine could cripple us. IMO, the Sevilla game in Spain has been a worry ever since our CL draw was made. It's the one away fixture from them all that you just have to expect some problems. The fact of the matter is that the club might not have to do anything about it because UEFA may well order that our remaining games are played behind closed doors. We'll find out this week. The hearing is on the 12th IIRC. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy steel 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 And the drinking culture in Scotland is far bigger than anywhere else I have ever been. And as much as we all think its funny, it is the ruin of our nation. Youngsters who could have been great sports men and women ruined by bevvie. <sets down can of Strongbow> I don't think it's funny at all, and that's why I back the proposals going to Holyrood soon; certainly not perfect but a step in the right direction at least. In reply to your earlier post, no, we didn't see the chair throwers being waded into, but from what I've read fans were being assaulted outside as they tried to gain entry - or at least some were, and who's to say they were not the same people reacting later? There's a world of a difference between thinking violence is acceptable, and that it is always wrong - a lot of ground in between. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wija 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 <sets down can of Strongbow> I don't think it's funny at all, and that's why I back the proposals going to Holyrood soon; certainly not perfect but a step in the right direction at least. In reply to your earlier post, no, we didn't see the chair throwers being waded into, but from what I've read fans were being assaulted outside as they tried to gain entry - or at least some were, and who's to say they were not the same people reacting later? There's a world of a difference between thinking violence is acceptable, and that it is always wrong - a lot of ground in between. Not from what I have seen so far. Quite an easy judgement IMO 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy steel 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Well, not having being there, I will defer to your knowledge. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Listen Maineflyer your opinions are only your opinions , just because you utter them does not mean they are for ever sacred and set in stone , whatever the RST spokesman said is his opinion and one that many will agree with , you cannot base a defence on what Uneria's stewards did , that's up to UEFA to decide , just as we will get done on what the fans did , whether we agree or not the decision will be made and we will get done . Our problem is we take massive amounts of fans to games in countries that are simply not set up for these sort of large fan movements , their police and stewards just cannot cope , there are very few clubs that have travelling supports such as ours , it also doesn't help when fans get bladdered on cheap beer for hours on end prior to kick off . Well I'm truly grateful for that informative analysis. It's good to be clear that my opinions are my opinions. Don't know what I might have thought they were if you hadn't stepped in to keep me right. Thanks for that. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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