Soccer boss in sectarian sing-song

[chilledbear 16]

I have posted a video showing the 1963 Rangers v Real Madrid game, watch it and you will hear Derrys Walls, that was nearly 50 years ago. I was among the crowd singing that night, and believe me The Sash was sung as well. The auld yin who was in his fifties was with me that night, and I can assure you it wasn't the first time he had sung these songs at Ibrox.

 

Now to some this might not make it a tradition, but don't tell me we can't sing these songs at Ibrox.

[Frankie 8,200]

Maybe it is, but when you think about it, if someone's behaviour is causing them bother and holding them back somewhat, is it not time for them to analyse it? Especially if it is less than clever?

 

I think jolly japes are all very well when it's innocent and no-one gets hurt, but when the law changes and some people go over the score, the press are making you out to be pariahs, a governing body is punishing you an threatening to strike you off, and some people are even going to jail: that's when it's time to analyse things and ask why we're doing it - and would we be better doing something slightly different instead...?

 

I don't mind a bit of analysis and as always mate your points are valid ones worthy of examining.

 

However, sometimes one has to ask themselves if action against us is fair - no matter who is behind it; be it the law, the media or the football authorities. With the TBB issue, I'd say the issue was borderline and perhaps worthy of the self-examination we seen a few years back. To that end, it seems 'we' agreed with the authorities and acted constructively to uphold their judgement. As such, those wishing to portray the Rangers support as bigotted, sectarian, racist or some sort of backward underclass are completely in the wrong.

 

Thus, when you now look at these same people's efforts to decry similar (though less contentious IMO) songs one has to question their motives. The Sash and DW may well be irrelevant in the modern era but they're certainly not offensive or worthy of proscribing. Juxtapose this with the obvious reluctance to question other clubs and their fans in the same way we are judged, then this is where disingenuous and downright mischief-making comes into the equation.

 

Just how far do we bend over before we ask ourselves if we're being treated fairly. The inference that singing The Sash or DW is sectarian is too far no matter if we like the song per se or not.

 

To be frank I'm surprised and disappointed you're so eager to back the establishment on this one. We've done nothing wrong, Dick Campbell did nothing wrong and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the afore-mentioned songs.

[calscot 0]

Frankie I agree with almost all of what you're saying and I thought I made that clear in my posts.

 

I'm not siding on the establishment and was one of the first to attack them in this thread. I've also repeatedly said DW has some good football sentiment which seems to have been ignored.

 

However, I'm wondering what we're doing with the likes of The Sash which is as disingenuous a song for us as the complaints against us.

 

The best interpretation that seems to justify it is that it's a bit of a joke and a wind up - and I now hear we've been doing it for 50 years or more. To me it sounds like it's time we put that one to rest as very ancient and too oft repeated, anachronistic, bad joke that get's brought out time and again and at best is boring and tedious like some old man who still thinks the joke he's told for the 10,000th time since the 60's is funny or even interesting.

 

The traditional argument just makes a mockery of tradition - should be wearing suits and flat caps to games because it's traditional? Or more succinctly, should we all be staying till after the final whistle because it's traditional? Some traditions seem easier to forget.

 

Perhaps it's up to the OO to do take some kind of class action against the press for defamation about their songs and then maybe we can just move on.

 

I've said people have a right to sing it, but what I'm questioning is surely there are a million better songs to sing than a stupid one about an non-existent sash that nobody's father wore.

 

Do we really not like Rangers enough to actually sing about the club or team?

 

You'll never get me singing the sash, not because it's immoral or wrong, but purely because it's about the most pants song there is in football repertoire - it's akin to going to a party and instead of the music being modern or good classic stuff, they are playing some crappy, folky, political stuff all night.

 

For me, the fans I'm usually most impressed with are the ones that come up with new, funny songs about current stuff. Why can't we be like that? It's not even that difficult - I came up with a few myself three years ago.

 

Instead of people groaning to themselves about hearing "that old crap" again, they'll be listening and having a laugh about our songs. We even have a laugh when the opposition fans come up with something funny at our expense.

 

I think as well as fighting for freedom of speech, we have to think about how to use that freedom to say something even a wee bit worthwhile, rather than just the monotonous drivel of The Sash.

[wabashcannonball 0]

I don't agree with you and wouldn't change a word of what I wrote. I wish, just once, those who express embarrassment at the likes of these two songs or our long ties with loyalist Ulster would simply tell us why they feel this way - what exactly is to be embarrassed about?

 

If you need the tragedy and heartbreak that sectarianism brings to communities all over the world, whither that sectarianism be Red Brigade, Loyalist, Republican, Khmer Rouge or any other that is misguided enough to think that it has some inherent right to prevail above all others, there is not a lot one can say. Whatever happened to common decency and humanity. Rangers was established by the founders as a football club, nothing more nothing less.

[Bluedell 5,373]

If you need the tragedy and heartbreak that sectarianism brings to communities all over the world, whither that sectarianism be Red Brigade, Loyalist, Republican, Khmer Rouge or any other that is misguided enough to think that it has some inherent right to prevail above all others, there is not a lot one can say. Whatever happened to common decency and humanity. Rangers was established by the founders as a football club, nothing more nothing less.

 

I don't see the connection between the 2 songs and sectarianism. I know the press try and infer one where there isn't. It's just a shame that we do their job for them as well.

 

I also don't see the relevance of the founders. Rangers are more than just a football club now. It has evolved into being an integral part of Scottish society, and arguably "Scotland's second greatest institution".

[Frankie 8,200]

Frankie I agree with almost all of what you're saying and I thought I made that clear in my posts.

 

I'm not siding on the establishment and was one of the first to attack them in this thread. I've also repeatedly said DW has some good football sentiment which seems to have been ignored.

 

However, I'm wondering what we're doing with the likes of The Sash which is as disingenuous a song for us as the complaints against us.

 

The best interpretation that seems to justify it is that it's a bit of a joke and a wind up - and I now hear we've been doing it for 50 years or more. To me it sounds like it's time we put that one to rest as very ancient and too oft repeated, anachronistic, bad joke that get's brought out time and again and at best is boring and tedious like some old man who still thinks the joke he's told for the 10,000th time since the 60's is funny or even interesting.

 

The traditional argument just makes a mockery of tradition - should be wearing suits and flat caps to games because it's traditional? Or more succinctly, should we all be staying till after the final whistle because it's traditional? Some traditions seem easier to forget.

 

Perhaps it's up to the OO to do take some kind of class action against the press for defamation about their songs and then maybe we can just move on.

 

I've said people have a right to sing it, but what I'm questioning is surely there are a million better songs to sing than a stupid one about an non-existent sash that nobody's father wore.

 

Do we really not like Rangers enough to actually sing about the club or team?

 

You'll never get me singing the sash, not because it's immoral or wrong, but purely because it's about the most pants song there is in football repertoire - it's akin to going to a party and instead of the music being modern or good classic stuff, they are playing some crappy, folky, political stuff all night.

 

For me, the fans I'm usually most impressed with are the ones that come up with new, funny songs about current stuff. Why can't we be like that? It's not even that difficult - I came up with a few myself three years ago.

 

Instead of people groaning to themselves about hearing "that old crap" again, they'll be listening and having a laugh about our songs. We even have a laugh when the opposition fans come up with something funny at our expense.

 

I think as well as fighting for freedom of speech, we have to think about how to use that freedom to say something even a wee bit worthwhile, rather than just the monotonous drivel of The Sash.

 

Again, I don't disagree with much of you say.

 

But my point is that the people who want rid of these songs don't do so because they are crap but use social problems to back up their claims. It's a nonsense, the article by the NOTW is a nonsense and none of us have the right to tell others what to sing as - in the case of The Sash and DW - they do not offend. Thousands of bears enjoy singing these songs (especially DW) so I see no need to remove (or update) them.

[wabashcannonball 0]

I don't see the connection between the 2 songs and sectarianism. I know the press try and infer one where there isn't. It's just a shame that we do their job for them as well.

 

I also don't see the relevance of the founders. Rangers are more than just a football club now. It has evolved into being an integral part of Scottish society, and arguably "Scotland's second greatest institution".

 

I quite deliberately did not mention the two songs in any reference to sectarianism.

[calscot 0]

Frankie, I think we're 99% on the same page, the one difference is I'd like change (even if just for change sake) but you don't.

 

I find it all a bit like how Del Boy finds Albert's continual references to the war. I must be one of the few that think the perpetual circle of mock love for the OO followed by mock outrage, followed by mock innocence, then mock love for Irish rebels and the IRA, followed by mock outrage followed by mock innocence, a bit ludicrous and a tad tedious.

 

I wish we could even box clever by dropping stuff like negative references to the pope. I think one of the reasons they have the establishment on their side is that they've been a lot cleverer than us - and that's a bit embarrassing too.

 

Surely it has to end sometime? And when or if it does, I'll bet there will still be as much rivalry, insults and violence etc; however, maybe then it will about something you can choose - your team, and not about a religious, political and ancestral divide or which school you go/went to.

 

Until then, it will be business as usual...

[Bluedell 5,373]

I quite deliberately did not mention the two songs in any reference to sectarianism.

 

You were replying to a post that did, and you didn't delete that part of the post, which certainly implied that you were referring to the songs, even if that was not your intention.

[wabashcannonball 0]

You were replying to a post that did, and you didn't delete that part of the post, which certainly implied that you were referring to the songs, even if that was not your intention.

 

If something is not sectarian there is no need to refer to it in a sectarian vein, hence I did not refer to the songs.