bang goes another 3 pts

[pete 2,499]

Time to dump Fergie when the January window opens and bring in Scott Brown and possibly Kevin Thomson with him.

[CammyF 6,781]

Time to dump Fergie when the January window opens and bring in Scott Brown and possibly Kevin Thomson with him.

 

Aye, great plan - dump the best midfield player in Scotland (when fit and on his game) for 2 Hibs players who are untested at this level and who would cost around �£4M to bring in...

 

Brown is a hot-head who would be in the stand more than on the pitch. Thomson is a talent but like I say, untried and untested at the top level.

 

It is worth noting that whilst players look great at Hibs, they hardly set the heather on fire when the move on. Can you tell me who, if anyone has been a success recently when they have moved from Hibs? Riorden? Murray?.....

 

Cammy F

[craig 5,195]

Aye, great plan - dump the best midfield player in Scotland (when fit and on his game) for 2 Hibs players who are untested at this level and who would cost around �£4M to bring in... But he hasn't been on his game for a LONG time Cammy, you are living on his past reputation as much as he is ! I LIKE Fergie as a player but the simplicity of it is he is NOT producing. Also, you have to be kidding about Brown and Thomson, right ? Did they not prove themselves at "this" level yesterday and came through with flying colours ? If it cost us 4 mill for them both and we got 4 mill for Fergie I would be snapping Hibs hand-off (and sorry that isn't what the Barry lovers want to hear but Brown and Thomson were a class apart yesterday !

 

Brown is a hot-head who would be in the stand more than on the pitch. Thomson is a talent but like I say, untried and untested at the top level. The level we would be asking them to perform at is SPL primarily and they have been tried and tested and on many occasions (including yesterday and making our midfield look VERY ordinary) they have come through ewith flying colours. They are untried and untested in Europe because Hibs haven't made Europe often - doesn't mean they CAN'T do the job there though if given the chance. As for Brown and his discipline there is no saying that it wouldn't stop if playing for another team where he isn't expected to be THE man.

 

It is worth noting that whilst players look great at Hibs, they hardly set the heather on fire when the move on. Can you tell me who, if anyone has been a success recently when they have moved from Hibs? Riorden? Murray?..... You are trying to use those players as reasons for Brown and Thomson being under-performers if they moved to Rangers ? I don't think Murray OR Riordan were Hibs best players Nor did they set the heather on fire when they moved. Also think you are being unfair to Riordan given he has been there next to no time. Maybe we should look at another Hibs player if this is what it boils down to - Goram ? You can't look at previous Hibs-OF transfers as an indication that it would be the same if these 2 made the move. One thing I can be pretty certain of, if Celtic nab these 2 then there will be plenty of Bears even more worried than they are now (and that is usually a decent indicator as to whether we rate these players or not).

 

Cammy F

 

We could do a lot worse than Broqwn and Thomson at Rangers Cammy - and, in fact, we already do have a lot worse than them !

[Gazza_8 233]

I'm beginning to seriously worry about Saturday now. That performance on Sunday was a disgrace. If the players are having a laugh and joke at training this week I'd be heavily pissed off with them all.

[CammyF 6,781]

We could do a lot worse than Broqwn and Thomson at Rangers Cammy - and, in fact, we already do have a lot worse than them !

 

Firstly, where is the money coming from to buy them?

 

Secondly, who drops out to accomidate them? Fergie? Hendami? Clement? Burke? Buffel? Are you seriously saying that Brown and Thomson are better than the above?

 

As for using Murray and Riorden as examples, off course you can. Hibs have development a great team ethos and spirit and it appears this cannot be recaptured when players leave Hibs. Murray was Hibs captain when we bought him and he hasn't delivered in a Rangers jersey. Riorden was being chased by 4-5 clubs including Rangers and yet hasn't even broke into the Craptic team (I hear he is struggling with training).

 

In short, if we do have �£4 million to spend on players, there are other positions that need filled before midfield (i.e centre-half and a right back)

 

Cammy F

[calscot 0]

I thought that when Murray was fit and playing he was generally considered one of our most consistent players. Despite playing in multiple positions, I don't really remember him letting the team down. He's had a few injuries including all of this season so far and for some reason wasn't very popular with Eck, but I would be hard pushed to say he hasn't delivered in Rangers jersey. And to be honest I see him as a far better player than the likes of Cammy Fraser.

 

Riordan may not have broken into the Celtic team but he's only just moved there and it tends to take a young player a season or two to become a regular after a step up to the big two.

 

We didn't buy Kenny Miller to go straight into the first team even at £3M, so why should Riordan? Miller never even made it at Rangers yet became the mainstay of the Scottish strike force.

[CammyF 6,781]

I thought that when Murray was fit and playing he was generally considered one of our most consistent players. Despite playing in multiple positions, I don't really remember him letting the team down. He's had a few injuries including all of this season so far and for some reason wasn't very popular with Eck, but I would be hard pushed to say he hasn't delivered in Rangers jersey. And to be honest I see him as a far better player than the likes of Cammy Fraser.

 

You obviously never saw much of Ian Murray and Rangers last season then. He was destroyed twice against Hibs. The game at Easter Road, he was ripped whilst playing left back. The cup game at Ibrox, he was again ripped at left back and was then put at centre-half - Hibs then went on to score a further 2 goals.

 

Like most of the team, his best performance came in Europe, he had a great game against Villarreal away. Apart from that he was very oridinary. As for AM not liking him, funny how he bought him, tried him in 3 positions (left back, centre-half and midfield) before dropping him.

 

As for Cammy Fraser, I'd argue that he was better than Murray. He played in a worse team and had a great goal-scroing record from midfiled, including a few in OF games. A record most of our current midfield would die for.

 

Riordan may not have broken into the Celtic team but he's only just moved there and it tends to take a young player a season or two to become a regular after a step up to the big two.

 

So Clement shouldn't be playing for Rangers then? He is younger than Riorden and has played less games (career wise) than him. What a load of tosh, he is struggling with training and has off-field problems

 

We didn't buy Kenny Miller to go straight into the first team even at £3M, so why should Riordan? Miller never even made it at Rangers yet became the mainstay of the Scottish strike force.

 

We didn't? Funny how I can remember him scoring 5 goals in a first team game, shortly after he joined us. He then came on in a CL group game to score a great goal - he was then sold as he wasn't deemed good enough by DA.

 

Cammy F

[craig 5,195]

Cammy, in fairness to Ian Murray... in both those Hibs games you mention the WHOLE TEAM were ripped by Hibs - or are you making the team reliant on one person (as you said that we couldn't rely on one person (Ferguson) in another thread) ??

 

Re Riordan, the initial discussion was abotu them being a success ON the field and now you are saying the reason for his lack of success is due to off-field problems, which therefore makes him with Brown and Thomson an unfair comparison.

 

Also, sadl to say, you try to compare him with Clement - the fact of the matter is that right now it is HARDER to break into the Celtic team than it is the Rangers team (note : Clement deserves his place in our team but the challenge is less than it is for Riordan in their preferred positions IMO). Also, it may be that Clement has adjusted better (or, hopefully, is simply a better player). But at the encd of the day this is about Brown and/or Thomson - and I still say that we could do with either or both of them at Ibrox. You say how do we pay for them ?? I say sell Ferguson (but then that no doubt will also result in your ire being thrown at me - Ferguson is living on past reputation, he WAS the best midfielder in Scotland, but cetrainly on the past couple of seasons he most certainly is no longer).

 

Your comparison between Cammy Fraser and Murray is also unfair as it is based on 2 different players, 2 different positions (I cut you slack as it was calscot that brought that comparison into play)

 

Just because Miller scored 5 in a 1st team game and then scored as a sub doesn't mean he was bought to go STRAIGHT into the 1st team Cammy.

[CammyF 6,781]

Your comparison between Cammy Fraser and Murray is also unfair as it is based on 2 different players, 2 different positions (I cut you slack as it was calscot that brought that comparison into play)

 

Exactly, and I stand by what I said, Cammy Fraser was a better Rangers player than Ian Murray has been to date (for the reasons given).

 

Cammy, in fairness to Ian Murray... in both those Hibs games you mention the WHOLE TEAM were ripped by Hibs - or are you making the team reliant on one person (as you said that we couldn't rely on one person (Ferguson) in another thread) ??

 

Erm, disagree - the 2-1 game at Easter Road Hibs ripped us in the first 45 minutes. They did this by exploiting the width given to them by Hutton and Murray going far to narrow - so maybe Murray should share the blame with Hutton on that one.

 

The cup game was different - we played well in the first half and could / should have been 2-3 goals up at half-time. Terrible defending cost us the game and Murray was at fault along with Ricksen, Soti and Big Marv.

 

I only used those games as an example - apart from the Villarreal away game, I am struggling to remember a game last season where Ian Murray stood out for Rangers. Maybe I am being unfair / fickle or whatever, but that is just how I remember it.

 

Just because Miller scored 5 in a 1st team game and then scored as a sub doesn't mean he was bought to go STRAIGHT into the 1st team Cammy.

 

Only DA can answer that question - my theory is as valid as yours or Calscot's tho, unless one of you are DA in disguise. In my defence, Millar featured in a lot of games as soon as he signed for us tho...

 

Cammy F

[craig 5,195]

Firstly, where is the money coming from to buy them? Sell Ferguson, is an option whether you or I like it or not.

 

Secondly, who drops out to accomidate them? Fergie? Hendami? Clement? Burke? Buffel? Are you seriously saying that Brown and Thomson are better than the above? Brown can play in multiple positions and as for Thomson, sure take your pick of Fergie or Hemdani (certainly Brown and Thomson played far better than Fergie on Sunday and, in truth, have had the upper hand on him since he came back to Rangers).

 

As for using Murray and Riorden as examples, off course you can. Hibs have development a great team ethos and spirit and it appears this cannot be recaptured when players leave Hibs. Murray was Hibs captain when we bought him and he hasn't delivered in a Rangers jersey. Riorden was being chased by 4-5 clubs including Rangers and yet hasn't even broke into the Craptic team (I hear he is struggling with training). So what you are saying with your first sentence is it is NOTHING to do with the players ability at all but to do with the issue of Rangers not having a "great team ethos" ?? Sounds like it to me. Being Captain is irrelevant as it doesn't make you the best player on the team, supposed to make you a leader (although look at how many "captains" we had last year and it meant nothing).

 

In short, if we do have �£4 million to spend on players, there are other positions that need filled before midfield (i.e centre-half and a right back) Hey, I don't disagree with you, not at all. But we could be a lot worse off than have these types of players at our club - we have NO PACE in our team, on the whole, we are pedestrian and have been for quite some time

 

 

Cammy F

 

Why is it though that Mowbray can get his players to play that well, and in a manner in which we would be happy with, on a shoe-string budget (by comparison) ?? I reckon it is due to them knowing they need to find good youngsters and nurture them (which brings us back to our old chestnut of youth development).