Lifted from �£�£ , but agree with just about all of it

[calscot 0]

 

I think your post sums up a huge section of the Rangers support now a days. You are just ready to accet anything as long as it comes from a legend of the club.

 

Can I just point out AGAIN. I'm not accepting any old stuff because Walter is a legend. I accept what he's doing as it brings us success or at the very least we are consistently competitive - something no other manager (except perhaps Struth) has done in our long and illustrious history. He could be Joe Bloggs for all I care or even Craig Brown if he was doing the same good job.

 

Any manager who wins the league 80% of the time and finishes second by three points or less the other times (and being cheated out of one) is worthy of my respect and THAT's what MAKES him a legend.

 

If Ally McCoist does the same then I'll respect him too. If he gets results like PLG or Eck's and Advocaat's last seasons, I'll want him replaced.

 

I'm totally consistent about managers and results - how about you?

[maineflyer 0]

What a waste of energy? Getting so worked up about a manager who is on the brink of being irrelevant to the future of the club. What a pity this level of energy couldn't be similarly devoted to something that actually matters, such as the invisible bastard skulking in his vinyard ... you know, the one who CAN have a say on whether we continue down the toilet or start rebuilding.

 

There's a lot still to do this season but in the scheme of things who gives a monkeys about Smith's record in Europe? Good or bad as you choose to see it, the past is possibly the least worry for a club in our situation.

[Zappa 0]

Another interesting statistic is that out of the last 6 two-leg knockout rounds we've played in Europe, we've won 5. Here's hoping tomorrow night makes it 6 out of 7.

[rbr 1,247]

I dont know anymore what people want out of a Rangers manager in these financially driven times , a cross between Mourhino and someone who doesnt spend any money just rears their own players , never plays negative and always entertains and scores loads of goals , always has 3 players for every positiion yet keeps the wage bill below �£25 MILLION

[craig 5,199]

I dont know anymore what people want out of a Rangers manager in these financially driven times , a cross between Mourhino and someone who doesnt spend any money just rears their own players , never plays negative and always entertains and scores loads of goals , always has 3 players for every positiion yet keeps the wage bill below �£25 MILLION

 

So the perfect manager... one that absolutely NO club has.

 

This isnt aimed at you obviously rbr... but I would be very interested to know what people would prefer - watching the pretty stuff that Advocaat had us playing in his last season or watching Walter's team - this is a loaded question because with Advocaat we might have been visually pleasing on the eye but we finished the season having not won the league. Whilst the football under Walter may not be visually appealing, it is still consistently garnering us finals and leagues.

 

Whether we like it or not, what we have NEEDED in the last 3 seasons is the steadying influence of Walter Smith - but not only has he steadied the ship but he has won two leagues whilst being financially handcuffed AND whilst his biggest rivals have been spewing money. Not bad going in terms of trophies.

 

I doubt that there is even ONE Rangers supporter who would say "I want to win lots of trophies and I want us winning then by playing ugly". But it isnt quite as easy as playing the "Barca way" and still winning. We have the players to do that - start of the season and they were playing some very decent stuff - but with a threadbare squad we have to almost expect that those wheels would fall off eventually as tiredness, injuries and suspensions come into play.

 

The one thing I DONT agree with in the OP is that WS's Euro record is somehow "positive" - winning less than 25% of your Euro games isnt good form, regardless of the opposition. Yes, I may be being harsh, but I expect - or at least expected until our financial malaise - much better from our club. Whilst it may be true that we have come up against some very handy european opponents we also shouldnt forget that through some of those campaigns we were actually the "BIG" spenders in our group.

 

One thing is for sure though, Walter Smith, regardless of any of our thoughts, most DEFINITELY deserves our respect for being a fine servant and, IMO, being "Rangers class" - he has followed in hallowed footsteps but walked that path admirably with nothing but integrity and dignity - he deserves FAR, FAR better than some of the vitriol and bile he has had from some quarters of the Rangers support !

[Gribz 743]

Frankie and Gisabeer probably have the right opinion in this debate, its more to do with the selection and formations which have caused some poor results in matches where we should have done better. When we play the bigger sides ive no problem with a 4-5-1 approach but would prefer to see more attack minded line up in such games as tonights.

 

I cant agree that the good results like draws with Barca and Man U balances the Kaunas, IFK, AEK Athens games.

 

I think WS has learned big lessons from the 90s due to some bad defeats where we were poorly beating by the like of Athens but all expected an easy victory with the class of Laudrup and Co in the team. This was only 1-2 years after our run to the semi's in 1993 so to expect such run wasnt a bad unimaginable.

 

WS just doesnt want to see anymore thumpings which were regular in the 90s, I can see his thinking, but at the same time we arent playing a top Juventus or Ajax side anymore.....PSV tonight arent a league above us so we should be going for it a bit more in these games.

[calscot 0]

Frankie and Gisabeer probably have the right opinion in this debate, its more to do with the selection and formations which have caused some poor results in matches where we should have done better. When we play the bigger sides ive no problem with a 4-5-1 approach but would prefer to see more attack minded line up in such games as tonights.

 

I cant agree that the good results like draws with Barca and Man U balances the Kaunas, IFK, AEK Athens games.

 

I think WS has learned big lessons from the 90s due to some bad defeats where we were poorly beating by the like of Athens but all expected an easy victory with the class of Laudrup and Co in the team. This was only 1-2 years after our run to the semi's in 1993 so to expect such run wasnt a bad unimaginable.

 

WS just doesnt want to see anymore thumpings which were regular in the 90s, I can see his thinking, but at the same time we arent playing a top Juventus or Ajax side anymore.....PSV tonight arent a league above us so we should be going for it a bit more in these games.

 

Apart from '92, I agree Walter didn't get it right in Europe and I was arrogant enough to think he should pay for it with his job despite winning 6 titles in a row.

 

However, to pick on individual games in a knockout competition with Europe's champions is definitely unfair. AEK have always been one of Greece's top sides and to suggest they were minnows is a bit disingenuous. IFK won the UEFA cup before beating DU in the final after MacLean's excellent side had already beaten the mighty Barcelona and IFK had beaten Inter. Granted that was about 10 year earlier, but it shows that they are a side that can do well on occasion.

 

After '92 our expectations in Europe were huge and every disappointment was amplified. Yes we lost and should have done better with the players we had but in Scottish football terms it was no real crime.

 

For me I'd prefer to get to a UEFA final one year and be pumped out by the likes of Kaunas the next, than just be consistently mediocre. All clubs can lose to what are considered lesser team in a one off tie and it doesn't help when your season hasn't started, your opposition is in the middle of there's, you've lost players and haven't brought in new ones yet and you've just had the hardest season in Scottish history. Not making excuses but with some mitigation it's again not the worst crime.

 

I'd also prefer to go out Kaunas while winning the league and cup double than qualify for the CL last 16 but win nothing and come in a distant third. Put it on the back of a UEFA final, it's a no brainer.

 

I think one thing people do forget about those years is that although we had Laudrup and others, we lived within our means and our squad did not have that much strength in depth. Our full backs were of the likes of Clelland and Bolan and our bench was pretty sparse. We underperformed but probably not as much as some remember.

 

I don't remember too many thumpings except from Ajax and Juventus - and the contrast of Del Piero and Clelland probably gives a good clue to the real difference in quality there. We really didn't have much of a hope of beating that Juve team even if we did have Laudrup et al.

 

I must admit though, that I see Walter's biggest mistake in that era was his 5-3-2 formation. It just never seemed to work and he should have abandoned it after two failed seasons max.

 

However I do think he's learned from that time and that's how we put in that run that got us to the final. And he's learned again from last year although our chances are much slimmer due to our almost non-existent squad.

 

One thing is for sure, I do see PSV as a top side compared to us - they are technically better than us and really should beat us the same way we should have beaten IFK and AEK - actually much more so.

 

If a team full of the top Dutch players are not generally a league above a team full of Scots in Scotland's worst ever spell for quality of players, then the much vaunted Dutch system is a crock and maybe they should be looking at our youth system...

[Gribz 743]

I must admit though, that I see Walter's biggest mistake in that era was his 5-3-2 formation. It just never seemed to work and he should have abandoned it after two failed seasons max.

 

I'll get round to the rest of your post bit later, I agree with bits of it.

 

But the problem wasnt the 5-3-2 as such, it was having the likes of Craig Moore in midfield....a player proven to be played out of position. When Advocaat signed Moore back I couldnt believe it but he went onto be a cracking centre half, a position where WS never played him. So having players out of position back then was part of the problem back then.

 

IIRC Laudrup was always used as a striker in Europe, he was more than capable of playing there, but he was damaging teams in a free role / wing position week in week out so should have played there in Europe also.

[calscot 0]

I'm as positive as the next man but you can't just mention losses against those three teams which have affected our season negatively.

 

This season we've also dropped points against Caley, Hibs and Hearts and have lost points in games we should have won against Valencia and Bursaspor in Europe. Sure, this can be attributed in part to a smaller squad and can be offset against better results but that doesn't explain the often poor attitude, lack of motivation and tactical inflexibility which we've seen this season (and before to be honest).

 

Again, I agree with you in that it surprises me just how negative people can be about our club, manager and players. Conversely though there remain valid concerns about Smith and I doubt any of us can be overly confident about winning anything this year given our most recent results in particular.

 

I also maintain that while his record does stand up to statistical scrutiny, it could indeed be better.

 

I didn't mention dropped points against other teams in the league as I think I'm fair enough to allow a manager some slack in that I don't expect him to win every, single game. Granted we've done in once, a very long time ago, in a very short season. But it's just not realistic. All managers lose games to just about anyone in their league from top to bottom and sometimes it's unfathomable how even the likes of Man U under the amazing Alex Ferguson can beat second place one week and lose to a bottom team the next.

 

It's the human factor and also the fact that there are so many variables that affect football and only so many are under our influence. it actually makes for a more interesting sport.

 

I am annoyed and disappointed at defeats and draws in the league, but I'm sanguine about it when it doesn't significantly affect our position at the top or just off the top of the league.

 

This season those results have not cost us as Celtic have actually dropped four more points than us against the rest of the league. We all make mistakes - the manager, the players and the fans but when you're son or daughter is scoring an A with 85% and top of their class, should you really be criticising them for not doing better and getting an A+ or 100%?

 

These days, in a good season we drop at least 23 points, this season is no worse than that so far. We're on course for 91 points which would win the title most years. Whether we keep it gong is another thing but so far it's not too shoddy.

 

Our only "real failures so far" this season have been to not qualify for the CL and to be knocked out of the cup by Celtic the rest we've done enough in so far. The league, the League Cup and the UEFA cup can only really be failed in the future, starting tonight.