Should the Bill Miller bid worry Rangers fans?

[Bluedell 5,348]

I was bombarded by emails yesterday from Mark Dingwall, RST major player and FF owner as to why TBK are the best option and why Miller would not be good for the club. I will take one of the articles and try and assess it as objectively as possible.

 

Firstly, I'd say that Mark has a lot more inside information than I do as he is obviously been talking to Paul Murray and the administrators and it's possible that he has other objections that he is unable to publicise, but that has to be set off by the fact that Murray appears to have offered the RST a seat at the table and Miller has ignored any advances by the RST.

 

If David Murray couldn't make money out of Rangers in 20 years what chance has an American who knows little about Scotland and even less about Rangers?

I don't see the relevence of David Murray to the discussion. However the point about Miller not knowing Scotland or Rangers is fair enough. Miller could be seen as coming in with fresh ideas and not put off by existing prejudices or assumptions but TBKs would definitely know more about us and what works and what is possible, but that in itself is not a particularly compelling argument.

 

 

 

If someone wants to “invest” in Rangers the simple question to ask is “what sort of return on your investment do you expect to make?” If they are making an emotional investment that is fine - if they are expecting a financial return then there is only one way they can do that and it is by asset-stripping - by selling off the land, other assets and doing a lease-back on the stadium. There’s no other way.

Good point. We have to question Miller's objectives. There doesn't appear to be money to be made so why get involved?

 

 

If the investor wants to enjoy the thrill of owning a big club - Old Firm games, the undoubted profile etc, then fine. But the historic shortfall has been around £5milllion a year over the last 20 years and that has been filled by share issues to David Murray, Joe Lewis and Dave King.

That shortfall still exists and exists for TBK as well. TBK share issue may solve the problem short term but what happens after that?

 

 

 

We know nothing of Mr Miller’s plan - he has refused, as is his right, to engage with fans representatives. After all that we have been through with David Murray and Craig Whyte is that credible? Are Rangers fans really saying that they will back someone with no track-record and no visible plan? If he wouldn’t engage before purchase what is that telling you?

The fact that Miller did not want to engage with TBK's main cheerleaders doesn't tell me a lot.

 

I am very wary because I reckon it’ll be promises of jam tomorrow but in actual fact it will be the fans stumping up again, paying for the mistakes of David Murray and Craig Whyte while all the time boosting up the value of a business bought for a pittance while the family silver is flogged off in the background. Call me naive - but I’m not for taking that chance.

 

The fans will surely be paying under either option?

 

 

Then we have the question of associated - Sport 9 Club and Andrew Ellis are in the background somewhere of that I have no doubt. Sport 9 people have definitely been advising Miller since after they claimed to have no links with him - they have been in on phone calls with the administrators. That is a fact. The Andrew Ellis stuff you just have to check out the newspapers for. We could be literally mad as a support to have anything to do with a deal which involves Ellis after his association with Whyte.

The fact that Sport 9 are advising is a concern.

 

Is Ellis involved? The fact that newspapers have said it doesn't mean that he is. There has been a lot of propoganda and misinformation published and this could be a scare tactic put out by another party. However if he is involved then this is a real concern.

 

 

The administrators told us on Monday that Miller had plans to market Rangers to the 30 million American who claim Scottish ancestry. I think that’s moonshine and if that’s part of his business plan then we should be worried. The idea that we are a worldwide unexploited brand is of course a nice thought but to exploit it needs ten of millions poured into marketing and if we aren’t in the Premiership or regularly competing and winning in the Champions League then that is simply window-dressing.

 

The RST have been pushing for increased overseas marketing for many years so I fail to understand why it's a bad thing. It shouldn't need tens of millions poured into it and to say so is just scare tactics. However I am also sceptical about the potential returns. There may be increased revenue but I doubt it will be significant, and not enough to make a huge difference to the club.

 

 

The we have the form of his deal. We’ve no examples of an “incubator company” working the way he proposes - I suspect that if he buys the club he’ll “discover” how difficult it all is and be left with “no option” but to liquidate.

 

I'd agree that it appears unlikely that Miller's plan will involve the existing plc and the idea of merging the incubator with it is fanciful given Whyte's reluctance to sell his shares but TBKs have the same problem.

 

Lastly, I might be being very unkind and paranoid but I’d rather be safe than sorry. I’ve always suspected that Craig Whyte needed to have a buyer lined up for his scheme to work and for him to ride away with a pay-off. I’m simply ultra-suspicious of anyone who isn’t a Rangers fan who would take on the club once they had a look at the books.

 

I guess It's possible but there's no evidence to suggest that this is the case. Why would Miller allow Whyte back in?

 

I also believe it may be illegal. I know someone who did something similar and spent 8 years trying to avoid extradition.

 

 

My core objection is as simple as that.

 

The least that you can do as a fan is to ask awkward questions

Agreed, but you dismissed objections and questions of TBKs are juvenile, so there is a some inconsistency there.

 

In conclusion, there's not enough information for me to decide whether Miller will be good or bad. The lack of information is concerning but I'd rather Miller says nothing than make false promises like Whyte. My real worry is his objectives. Why does he want to do it?

 

There's not enough to suggest that TBKs are definitely a much better option than Miller, although they are likely to be a safer option, not withstanding the lack of finance.

 

We don't know if he is willing to put in any more finance than TBKs, which appears to be the major weakness in their proposal, so I guess all we can do is hope that the future of the club falls into safe hands.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Bluedell

[Darthter 542]

{QUOTE]I’m simply ultra-suspicious of anyone who isn’t a Rangers fan who would take on the club once they had a look at the books.{/QUOTE]

 

Wasn't Mr Whyte a Rangers "fan"???

 

I'm more sceptical of the BK's overall progress so far - after all the weeks of bidding etc, they still appear no nearer to completion!!! THAT to me is a major concern. Add to that their apparent lack of funding, all be it slightly alleviated with the inclusion of Kennedy, the BK's don't exactly fill me with any confidence.

[Bears 0]

It doesn’t matter to me if the new owner is a Rangers fan or not. What matters is he has a clear business history, raw cash in the bank and a plan.

 

I know BM hasn’t given a clear plan for the future, i’m pretty sure he has one though, a guy at his level of business won;t make it up as he goes. I reckon if he gets PB then he’ll open up and tell us what his plans are.

 

It’s wrong to tar everyone in the same light as CW.

[der Berliner 3,267]

Generally, no matter who owns a British football club, these people will hardly make any money out of them. And even if the odd club does make a profit, the money hardly goes to th chairman. I would assume (!) that much the same holds true for baseball or ice hockey teams in the US. Hence you are bound to ask questions about the motives of a foreigner with regards to the club, and IMHO it doesn't matter whether you support other bidders or favour a different owner model or not.

 

The big difference with TBK is that we know that these people are Bluenoses and most likely, business-men or not, are not in here to make money. That is probably their big plus in the eyes of the support. No fault in here. If the new owner - again, no matter who he is / they are - is willing to speak to the support or have them amongst the directors, even better ... and a welcomed change from the previous regimes.

 

That all said, I doubt that the RST was offered an exclusive seat amongst the directors, if anything, the supporters were offered one, all big supporters groups included. Furthermore, hardly anyone but the admins and the manager have spoken to Miller, so we hardly know what he has in mind with regards to the supporters and their influence in guiding the club. Is there a great need for all bidders to speak to the support ere they actually have a clue about their chances of buying the club?

 

Quite a bit of water will run down the Clyde ere we'll know what plans the various bidders really have and whether they are willing and/or able to fullfill them.

[GovanAllan 0]

The first question that should be asked is just what exactly are you getting out of this Dingwall, for someone who claims he wants no part of The BK's if they win control, you are doing a bad job of hiding the love.

 

If he wants to appear impartial he should try picking holes in the BK/Kennedy bid it's not hard.

[Bears 0]

Generally, no matter who owns a British football club, these people will hardly make any money out of them. And even if the odd club does make a profit, the money hardly goes to th chairman. I would assume (!) that much the same holds true for baseball or ice hockey teams in the US. Hence you are bound to ask questions about the motives of a foreigner with regards to the club, and IMHO it doesn't matter whether you support other bidders or favour a different owner model or not.

 

The big difference with TBK is that we know that these people are Bluenoses and most likely, business-men or not, are not in here to make money. That is probably their big plus in the eyes of the support. No fault in here. If the new owner - again, no matter who he is / they are - is willing to speak to the support or have them amongst the directors, even better ... and a welcomed change from the previous regimes.

 

That all said, I doubt that the RST was offered an exclusive seat amongst the directors, if anything, the supporters were offered one, all big supporters groups included. Furthermore, hardly anyone but the admins and the manager have spoken to Miller, so we hardly know what he has in mind with regards to the supporters and their influence in guiding the club. Is there a great need for all bidders to speak to the support ere they actually have a clue about their chances of buying the club?

 

Quite a bit of water will run down the Clyde ere we'll know what plans the various bidders really have and whether they are willing and/or able to fullfill them.

 

All valid points. BM needs to talk to us about his vision for the future ASAP. The reason i want BM to step up is because i feel there’ no other option other than going to the wall. TBK’s have had 980 days now, as i said in other posts, you could argue PM has had a year to set up a plan to use other peoples money to buy us. he hasn’t.

 

From what the guys on here say, the BM plan takes out CW, can TBK’s do it? It doesn’t seem so, that’s not their fault though, we must give them that, it’s a combination of D&P and CW, especially CW.

 

I feel there’s a lot of fans can’t actually see what’s happening. We’re on our very last breaths here, we need someone now, not tomorrow or friday, we need them NOW to start the long process of getting us back on our feet.

 

Reality check time

[biggordy 0]

Ally has spoken with him and he is quoted as being "happy".

Nevertheless, I would like to see and hear Miller, maybe in a controlled environment, Rangers TV ?, being interviewed by say, Sandy Jardine or even Ally.

[der Berliner 3,267]

Of course, once the takeover is done and we are rid of Whyte and the baggage that goes along with him (and HMRC), nothing prevents the BKs or Ngs of this world to take the club out of Miller's grasp again. It's not like Earth will stop rotating the day after any takeover.

[Frankie 8,172]

I think FF/RST are correct to air their concerns about Miller and I'm glad they've done so.

 

However, the best way for the TBK to be successful is for them to be clear about their bid and their plans. Show us why they're the best bid and why we should back it rather than concentrating on what is nothing else than negative 'party politics.

 

By not doing that, it's natural for our support to be as cautious (or suspicious) about that bid as any other.

 

Indeed, we should be asking that if our fan groups are so neutral, why they haven't broken down the TBK plans in the way they've done with others. They clearly have insight so what are the pros and cons.

 

We do have a right to know given, if successful, TBK will be asking for our money (and lots of it) soon enough.

[Guest wolfman]

there is great talk about miller not being a rangers fan but at least he has bid for the club and is prepared to invest.which brings us to the rich so called rangers fans you know the ones i mean the ones that make great play of sitting on their hands when the club needs help.of the two give me the one who is happy to stand up and be counted.hopefully when he takes over he will clear out of the exec boxes all the rich parasites that profess to be rangers fans.