Rangers: Doing The Right Thing

[amms 0]

I’ve never watched Scottish third division football before, I’d no real desire to either until quite recently. However I now find myself in the unusual position of wanting my team, Rangers, to be playing in that league next season. I think that would be the dignified and right thing to do. I agree with everyone who says that Rangers didn't 'die' last week simply the corporate shell that housed us, however, we didn't pay our tax we've now stiffed hundreds of individuals and companies as well as our own debenture holders so a little bit of us did die. I believe we shouldn't just carry on in the same league, more or less debt free, as if nothing happened. I know there will be the Euro ban and possibly other as yet unknown 'sanctions' to contend with. But I wish the club would take the lead here and announce we will not be reapplying for the SPL. I'd rather we left Scotland all together actually, but that's probably not possible, in which case Division 3 it'll need to be.

 

There has to be some recognition by us, the club, that what was done by our club was wrong, I don't feel that's happened yet. Yes, it was Whyte who was responsible, and David Murray too and most of the support could do nothing about it, however it still happened on our watch and we need to pick up the pieces.

 

We've never had anything handed to us, despite what others might say about us, we've worked for everything we have, it took us decades to build a club and a team that could win things, we couldn't go out and buy the best players from the best club from day one unlike some others near by. Facing up to adversity is in our DNA.

 

For all the hysteria and hyperbole that has surrounded Rangers this year this isn’t our darkest hour. As every Rangers fan knows that was in 1971 when 66 supporters lost their lives attending a game. Rangers response to that tragedy was to completely rebuild Ibrox. No one told Rangers to do it, indeed there was no pressure applied by the authorities to do it, but the club took the decision because they believed it was the right thing to do. What many people overlook about that decision is that Rangers were very much playing second fiddle to Celtic then. It was the middle of their 9-in-a-row run, they were regular participants in the latter stages of European competitions and were the dominant force in the city. That’s not a situation that sits well with Rangers fans. It is estimated that the rebuilding of Ibrox cost over £10 million, a huge some at the time, imagine if that money had been spent on the playing and coaching staff instead? It must have been tempting at the time. Had that happened who can say how history might have changed. I’m immensely proud that we didn’t though, there can be little doubt that it was the right thing to do, you don’t need hindsight to see that either, and we didn’t need anyone else to tell us it was the right thing to do, we knew ourselves. It was solely our decision.

 

I think this is a similar moment. We need to acknowledge what our club did wasn’t right, even though it wasn't the supporter’s fault and we didn't approve of it. The 'company' who held our license to play no longer exists, so we should reapply at the bottom and work our way back.

 

As such I don't have much of a problem with the statements being periodically released by other Scottish clubs and their fan groups. Indeed I agree with their sentiment if not with some of the language or indeed motivation behind them.

 

We should acknowledge the strength of feeling at other clubs about this. Our (and I include myself in this) first reaction as a support is to circle the wagons and fight back when we are criticised from outside. Sometimes we might be better to stop, think about why it's been said and try and understand what is informing it. Some of it is fuelled by an irrational hatred of us as a club and a support, but some of it isn't. Time for us to accept that I think.

 

I don't particularly want self-flagellation, I want the club to do what I think it should do. Had we achieved a CVA then we should have stayed in the SPL with no sanctions in my opinion. We didn't, the 'company' has now gone and with it our debt, I think that's wrong, we didn't pay our way and that sits uncomfortably with me.

 

I'm also unsure what we'll be missing by not being in the SPL. We'll miss some 'big' league matches and some sponsor money and the quality of football will be poorer for sure, but beyond that? We'll still be in the Scottish and League Cups, so we might still get some 'big' games. What actually will be missing out on that's worth further blackening our history?

 

I fully accept there will repercussions for other clubs if we are not in the SPL. I’m sorry about that, but I’m not sure it’s a good enough reason for us to remain there. New clubs start at the bottom, that’s what happens in football at whatever level. When Clydebank rejoined the Junior ranks after several decades in senior football they didn’t go into the Junior Superleague, despite clearly having a fanbase and structure that would make them competitive.

 

There are clearly differences between Clydebank and Rangers however the principle is the same. Principles have been lacking in our boardroom recently, hopefully someone has enough of them though to do the right thing now.

 

I know that some see this as their chance to do us down, inflict damage on us for petty, spiteful reasons that really have nothing to do with football. At the same time anything we achieve in football from today on will always have this hanging over it. If we win the SPL next season, instead of being seen as the second Miracle of Bern it'll be seen as a victory for tax avoiding, to big to fail, corporate bullies. History is very important to football fans, it’s taught me that doing the right thing pays off in the end.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Zappa

[Bluedell 5,356]

however, we didn't pay our tax we've now stiffed hundreds of individuals and companies as well as our own debenture holders so a little bit of us did die.

 

Whyte didn't pay our tax.

 

It seems wrong to punish the cliub to that extent for the actions of one man over a 9 month period. At least the club in the shape of the now former directors questioned Whyte's takeover but the SFA ignored these warnings, stood back and did nothing. The club in the shape of the fans asked plenty of pertinent questions to Whyte and were lied to.

 

I fail to see why the club has to suffer more thsan it has done for the actions of one man over a 9 month period when the club tried to do something about it.

[andy steel 0]

Cause that's how the world works? Or, if it doesn't, it's how it should work and it would be 'doing the right thing' to accept responsibilities. You argue, if I read you aright, that these responsibilities are Whytes...I don't think we can seperate the two as easily as that so I agree with AMMS.

[der Berliner 3,289]

The heart in my breast says we should not accept any punishment that is not in the books, and we should contest undue punishment for the club, since there was nothing in place to stop Whyte. That will be the same with other clubs and I for one would argue very much like that if this happened to any other club - bar one. But the latter is - again - a matter of heart, not brains.

 

While Whyte messed the company up (and some may claim on purpose, as HMRC was coming after us in due course (or so they think)) and had us into admin, the authorities stood idly by and did not only abstain from helping the club (yet fired broadside upon broadside in our direction), no they apparently did next to nothing in terms of preparing for the implications. Now they are in a hurry to a) safe their faces and b) their business and that will sure lead to some hasty decisions (like the transfer embargo), probably only half thought-through.

 

We should try to see our case both with heart and with brains. I for one sure want the SPL and SFA to suffer because of the behaviour they and a section of their members has shown towards us. "To Hell or Connacht, may the burn in Hell tonight!" Yet, Division 3 will see massive drawbacks for the club as such too. For make no mistake, players will leave, attendance figures will drop, money from the board will be much tighter. And while Div 3 or 2 will still not be difficult to navigate, in essentially 2 years time we will have a team that may only be good enough to challenge for SPL promotion. And once we are back there, it will take some more time ere we will have a chance to even challenge for a top 6 slot. While the sentiment is pretty much there that we should regain our "reputation" back the hard way, rest assured, no-one will care in years to come. If we are out of their picture, people willl solely look at their troubles and clubs and remind us from time to time about our failures and laugh at us. Does anyone really thinks that our reputaion has been hit that much? The world did not care, the Scottish hacks did. They got the authorities in a frenzy way beyond belief and you can now see the reaction. Does anyone actually thinks that once we are back from the doldrums, anyone will say "well done, you worked your way up again and served your punishment, that dark spot on your CV is gone now. Here's your unblemished reputation!"? The Scum will still hate us, as will the Dons. The rest of the SPL will envy us as much as any rich and successful club will be envied. They do not care about our reputation, and the world, as I said above, hardly noticed in the first place. And if it did, it will ask a few questions, gets some un-meddled facts about Whyte, and will say: "ah well, nothing to do with football then."

Edited June 21, 2012 by der Berliner

[amms 0]

Whyte didn't pay our tax.

 

It seems wrong to punish the cliub to that extent for the actions of one man over a 9 month period. At least the club in the shape of the now former directors questioned Whyte's takeover but the SFA ignored these warnings, stood back and did nothing. The club in the shape of the fans asked plenty of pertinent questions to Whyte and were lied to.

 

I fail to see why the club has to suffer more thsan it has done for the actions of one man over a 9 month period when the club tried to do something about it.

 

It's a fair point and at the heart of why this is so difficult for so many of us. It's taken me a while to reach this point, I felt like you initially.

 

At its heart football is a team game, a cliche I accept but no less true for it. When Nacho Novo buried that penalty in Florence to take us to the UEFA Cup Final I didn't think it's Nacho's moment, I'll sit back and let him enjoy it, or indeed it's for the 11 (10) guys on the pitch. It was for all of us, indeed I imagine it meant more to most of the support than to some of the players. Every goal Rangers score, game we win, trophy we lift I take the credit for, not personally but I bask in the reflected glory it brings. Buying tickets, going to games, simply investing the time and energy I do in caring about Rangers means I'm part of the team. I play a minor role, but it's a role none the less, it's a role we all play. That's what being part of a team is about.

 

Unfortunately for every Lovenkrands last minute cup final winner there's a loose pass back from Gary Stevens. We take the rough with the smooth. It wasn't just Stevens who lost that day, we all did, and it hurt. Gary Stevens has moved on, I doubt he thinks much about Rangers these days, certainly not as much as you or I do anyway. Because the Gary Stevens, Peter Lovenkrands and Nacho Novo's of this world come and go, they join, they sometimes shine, we enjoy it and then they leave. We don't, we remain.

 

For me Craig Whyte falls into that category too. He came, he did what he did and now he's gone and we have to live the consequences. It's never about 'one man' no matter what happens. What any of us do in the name of Rangers reflects on all the rest of us, whether we like it or not.

 

In my opinion what Whyte did reflects on me. I didn't do it, I didn't know it was happening, I don't approve of it and I wish it didn't happen. I think we pretty much all feel that way. However he's gone and we're not and in the end we're Rangers. You're Rangers, I'm Rangers, Andy Steel is Rangers and so on. As such it is up to us to pick up the pieces and fix our club.

 

Just my view Del and as you've known for a long time my views don't always reflect the broader support!

[Bluedell 5,356]

Amms, I've got sypmathy with your view, while not totally agreeing with it.

 

So what have we as a club done wrong? Gone into administration because we didn't pay our debts and we have been punished for that with the 10 point penalty.

 

We have then had to form a newco because a creditor took a strange stance and decided to go for a lower payout. That's not our fault and I don't see why we should be punished for it. The club still exists. What difference is it that we are a newco? Celtic moved their club from one company to another, although the company that holds the SPL share is admittedly (presumably) unchanged.

 

Does the fact that we ahve moved from one corporate company to anotehr mean that we deserve to be punished? To me it's much of an irrelevance and who REALLY cares? There's a lot of mock anguish but 99% of those who are now up in arms wouldn't know a company number from a cpi rate. Could any of them tell you definitively whether Dundee or Motherwell's corporate structures changed post-administration?

 

I just fail to see what we should be getting punished for.

[calscot 0]

The OP demonstrates the whole Scottish football position of "Rangers must be punished" without much of an understanding or just ignoring the facts of what has gone on.

 

The bit that gets me is that there are many posts on here which examine and debate the whole process and the various villains of the piece, but authors of this kind of thread don't engage with them at all, they are completely ignored and then we get a piece that looks straight out of the Lawwell party line.

 

If you're going to write this kind of piece, you should at least take into account all sides of the situation and have some understanding of the whys and wherefores.

[amms 0]

Bluedel - For me what we’ve done wrong is walk away from our debts. I’m hugely uncomfortable with that. We’re now, potentially at least, in a position of having no debt despite not paying it back. It’s a legal and broadly accepted business practice I know, but I still feel it’s wrong, particularly for an organisation such as Rangers.

 

Whatever our corporate structure by shedding the debt, by not honoring what has gone before we’ve become ‘new’. As such we should start again from the bottom. The history, the memories, the emotion and the attachment will never die and nor should they.

 

Calscot – This piece is my point of view, I represent no one but myself with it. Indeed I only wrote it because I was asked. I try and listen to all points of view before forming my own, my point of view changes from time to time on a whole host of subjects, this one included. It might change again, I reserve that right.

 

I’m not ignoring any facts although I might well not understand all of them I accept that. If I’ve not engaged with someone on this I apologise, I’ve not been on here regularly for that long, I don’t always choose to get involved in every debate, often I’ve nothing worthwhile to add anyway, as you can see!

 

If your intention was to wound then the Peter Lawwell jibe did just that, although I feel the piece wasn’t nearly bombastic enough for him. Wait until you read my next piece on why wee Jinky should get a posthumous knighthood though….

[Bluedell 5,356]

Bluedel - For me what we’ve done wrong is walk away from our debts. I’m hugely uncomfortable with that. We’re now, potentially at least, in a position of having no debt despite not paying it back. It’s a legal and broadly accepted business practice I know, but I still feel it’s wrong, particularly for an organisation such as Rangers.

 

Whatever our corporate structure by shedding the debt, by not honoring what has gone before we’ve become ‘new’. As such we should start again from the bottom. The history, the memories, the emotion and the attachment will never die and nor should they.

OK, so you believe that everybody who enters administration should get relegated down to division 3, and not not just suffer the current 10 points deduction? Fair enough, although it seems excessive to me. However we don't make the rules and the rules are the 10 points deduction. They apply to everyone.

[Thinker 887]

It's tough to separate and apportion legal wrong-doing/responsibility from moral wrong-doing/responsibility in this. But here's my attempt:

 

Legally (according to the principles of corporate law) Rangers as a whole are responsible for the debt, but by the same principles liquidation resolves that. Not very morally satisfying, but that's the law.

 

Morally (in my eyes at least) Craig Whyte is responsible for the debt and I wish their was some way he could be punished. But just because the law doesn't satisfactorily dish out blame and punishment, doesn't mean Rangers Football Club have to.

 

The EBT situation may turn out to be different if (as King said the other day) Rangers received a sporting advantage due to (allbeit unwitting) illegal activity. But the club gained no advantage from Whyte's actions. He was contractually obliged to invest £21m(?) but instead diverted tax money to do it and that resulted in our liquidation. I'm pretty sure that was his aim from the word go - he deliberately harmed the club for his own gain. I don't feel morally indebted to anyone over that.