BrahimHemdani 1 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) It's axiomatic that in our current set up we have to employ zonal marking on the counter attack against us because at least one and sometimes both full backs will not be in a postion to man mark their immediate opponents. This is also a back up argument for a third central defender, libero or defensive midfielder capable of shuttling between central defense and midfield, a la Yaya Toure (thanks SBR) in his Barcelona days. It's not obvious to me that we have the players capable of pressing the ball effectively enough, if at all, to mount the kind of rearguard action you envisage. It's hard to see the likes of Oduwa, Zelalem, Mackay in those particular trenches. You need a super fit (yes we are a LOT fitter than last season) and exceptionally talented team to mount a successful high pressing game; I'd be happy if we could get back into our zones a bit faster than we do at present and then begin the press. Zonal defense is often found out at set pieces as Celtic in particular know to their cost http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/13720806.Kennedy_defends_Celtic_s_use_of_zonal_marking_system/ but clearly they haven't read this article on set piece marking http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4685580.stm Edited September 30, 2015 by BrahimHemdani 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearman 9 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 You need a super fit (yes we are a LOT fitter than last season) Your asking for trouble...wait til Calscot reads that 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Can you imagine a McCoist team pressing the ball and pressuring the opponents? Nah, me neither. Edited October 1, 2015 by Gazza_8 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rousseau 9,427 Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 It's axiomatic that in our current set up we have to employ zonal marking on the counter attack against us because at least one and sometimes both full backs will not be in a postion to man mark their immediate opponents. This is also a back up argument for a third central defender, libero or defensive midfielder capable of shuttling between central defense and midfield, a la Yaya Toure (thanks SBR) in his Barcelona days. It's not obvious to me that we have the players capable of pressing the ball effectively enough, if at all, to mount the kind of rearguard action you envisage. It's hard to see the likes of Oduwa, Zelalem, Mackay in those particular trenches. You need a super fit (yes we are a LOT fitter than last season) and exceptionally talented team to mount a successful high pressing game; I'd be happy if we could get back into our zones a bit faster than we do at present and then begin the press. Zonal defense is often found out at set pieces as Celtic in particular know to their cost http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/13720806.Kennedy_defends_Celtic_s_use_of_zonal_marking_system/ but clearly they haven't read this article on set piece marking http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/rules_and_equipment/4685580.stm I'm not so sure we need to zonal mark our opponents. We push them up the pitch, so they are playing fairly deep. Only 1 or 2 attackers are high enough to trouble our defence. I think those defenders should automatically press a man each, cutting off potential passing lines, as soon as we loose the ball. To revert to a zonal defence more quickly, we need to sacrifice some of our attacking play: full-backs and midfielders maybe don't go as far forward. I tried to argue that we should forget about the zonal defence and man-mark (in-play, not set-pieces) so as to press the opposition to win the ball back -- our possession is one of our strengths --, or at the very least press them back so we do have time to set up our zonal defence. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,172 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 That's the article published mate: http://www.gersnet.co.uk/index.php/news-category/current-affairs/450-defending-in-transition Must admit, I've really enjoyed this three part analysis so thanks a lot for taking the time to educate us all on this season's tactical changes. Looking forward to you investigating our creative/forward play next! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You didn't answer me in the last topic about this. Do you think we are going to play this system in Europe? I.E. play in Europe with two ultra-attacking full backs? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Your asking for trouble...wait til Calscot reads that No, the trouble is when someone insults me for having a broader viewpoint on the subject. However, is funny that a player of the opposition recently said that last season we beat them using greater fitness, this time we beat them using greater skill... As I said, before there are multiple variables in how fit someone "looks", and it's hard to distinguish how much is from each variable. The funny thing is the circular arguments where people don't realise that the more we're better because the players are fitter, it means it has less it has to do with the way we play, as well as the skill and motivation of the players. I think it's a no-brainer that the motivation due to the new board, management and players in the post sp-iv era is massively improved - so just how much of the improvement is left to the way we play? If all we've done is massively improve fitness then we haven't really come very far when considering future games against a higher standard of team. There is only so much extra fitness you can squeeze out of a professional athlete and if your prospective, full-time opposition are doing the same (it can't be too hard - and we must have done it in a few weeks), then where is your advantage? Or is that why we lost to St Johnstone, meaning we'll be found out in the SP? Does it also mean our current tactics are no more effective than Ally's - if the former had the same levels of motivation and fitness? For me Ally was a mediocre manager, following traditional practices, who had the job at the worst time possible in our history. And Warburton is an excellent manager with lots of modern, out of the box thinking, who has come at the beginning of a bright new dawn. I don't think the change on the field is all just down to the sports scientists and fitness experts, on top of the obvious motivational aspects. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Ally wasn't as good as a mediocre manager. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Ally wasn't as good as a mediocre manager. So what was McCall? And what were the managers who finished below McCall while at Motherwell? Anyway, as I say, circular or contradictory arguments. With Ally's results, if he was really bad, it doesn't say much for Warburton so far... especially when you figure in the off-field stuff. It just says he's fairly competent in the SC but very worryingly poor against SP teams compared to a rubbish manager with a shit board, disillusioned fans and unfit, mercenary players who couldn't give a crap, had been ruined by the management, playing ineffective tactics... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The majority of managers in Scotland are no better than average. Why? Because they're managing in Scotland. The managers who have moved down to England to manage have largely failed with the odd exception. McCall is a mediocre manager as is McInnes who finished 2nd last season. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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