Alex McLeish vs Warburton CVs

[der Berliner 3,283]

Again, IMHO, we create enough chances per game to win comfortably. What we continually fail to do is putting ur chances away ... and despite his 11 goals thus far, Wags is one of our prime candidates for criticism here. You would hope that anyone taking up the role now places him and Garner alongside one another.

[ascender 352]

We give away far too many cheap chances to opposition from open play and set pieces.

 

We fail to put away chances.

 

Address either one of those and second place becomes much more likely. Address both and it could be a lot more comfortable.

 

Surely both of those would be blindingly obvious to any interim manager coming in who has watched any of our games this season?

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

If you don't provide any balance to your assessments of him you just look daft.

Why should I provide any balance? He's consistently proven he's a woeful manager. I welcome anyone on here to debate with me the merits of having him as manager.

Edited February 14, 2017 by Ser Barristan Selmy

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

I want a modern manager who playes a pressing game and wants to attack and win.

 

Thats not eck as far as i can see.

 

Hes done well at 4 or 5 clubs at least and with Scotland. Would probably get ok results here but we can be more ambitious.

Why would he get OK results? He went 10 games without a win with a squad on a fortune.

 

Who are the 4 or 5 clubs he did well with?

 

Why does he keep getting sacked?

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

So who would you put in charge til the end of the season ?

Someone who we don't already know to be completely inept at the job.

[MacK1950 2,249]

Allardyce/Redknap to name but two totally inept:devil::devil:

[craig 5,199]

Why should I provide any balance? He's consistently proven he's a woeful manager. I welcome anyone on here to debate with me the merits of having him as manager.

 

Aye you are absolutely right SBS. He's a woeful manager.

 

One that won the Carling Cup with an unfashionable Birmingham side. He won 7 trophies with Rangers at a time when Celtic were outspending us and at a time when they had one of their best ever teams (according to many). He won a treble for Rangers, something the club have only done 7 times in their history - and, incidentally, something Celtic have only ever done 3 times in theirs.

 

He has a 70% win rate with Scotland - call it whatever you like, he took one of our poorest squads of players and managed to get a 70% win-rate including a win away to France.

 

He was the first manager to take a Scottish team out of the group stages of the Champions League and into the KO stages. He was very unlucky in not going one round further in that competition too but for a glaring miss by Boyd.

 

He may not be our solution. However, to describe him as a "woeful manager" when he won a treble, won 7 trophies at a time when Celtic were outspending us, took us into the KO stages of the Champions League, managed Scotland to a famous win away to France is exactly why GS said your lack of balance makes you look daft. He was right. You look daft when you continue to throw out these superlatives when they aren't actually based on fact.

 

Fact is.... you simply cannot be a "woeful manager" and achieve the success he did. It simply isn't possible. No matter how many ways you try to dress it up.

Edited February 14, 2017 by craig

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Aye you are absolutely right SBS. He's a woeful manager.

You should have just left it there.

 

One that won the Carling Cup with an unfashionable Birmingham side.

And relegated them twice. Worth pointing out that this is a tournament few sides in England care about, particularly a few years ago. Bad managers and players sometimes win trophies.

 

He won 7 trophies with Rangers at a time when Celtic were outspending us and at a time when they had one of their best ever teams (according to many). He won a treble for Rangers, something the club have only done 7 times in their history - and, incidentally, something Celtic have only ever done 3 times in theirs.

5 of those trophies were with Advocaat's squad. I could have won those trophies with a team containing Klos, Numan, Ferguson, Arteta, De Boer etc. playing in Scottish football. He's playing in a 2 team league so winning trophies is inevitable, particularly when the squad are earning a fortune in wages and there's various internationalists to choose from.

 

He has a 70% win rate with Scotland - call it whatever you like, he took one of our poorest squads of players and managed to get a 70% win-rate including a win away to France.

And lost to Georgia and failed to qualify.

 

He was the first manager to take a Scottish team out of the group stages of the Champions League and into the KO stages. He was very unlucky in not going one round further in that competition too but for a glaring miss by Boyd.

Strachan did it twice. McLeish's record overall in Europe was extremely poor. See Viktoria Zizkov.

 

He may not be our solution. However, to describe him as a "woeful manager" when he won a treble, won 7 trophies at a time when Celtic were outspending us, took us into the KO stages of the Champions League, managed Scotland to a famous win away to France is exactly why GS said your lack of balance makes you look daft. He was right. You look daft when you continue to throw out these superlatives when they aren't actually based on fact.

He is a woeful manager. That's why he's out of work after being sacked from a job in Egypt. I've presented plenty facts and you can find them all below.

 

Fact is.... you simply cannot be a "woeful manager" and achieve the success he did. It simply isn't possible. No matter how many ways you try to dress it up.

- Record consecutive losses to Celtic.

- 2 and and half months without a victory (record 10 games)

- Knocked out by Viktoria Zizkov in Europe with a team containing Klos, Amoruso, Ferguson, Arteta, Numan, De Boer etc.

- Third in the SPL with a squad on big money, below a team of Lithuanians.

- Numerous awful signings like Capucho, Emerson, Ostenstad, Mladenovic etc. All players on a fortune.

- Brutal football once he had his own players.

- Has been a complete disaster and repeatedly sacked ever since. Last season failing in Egypt!

 

Let's review his positions since leaving:

 

Scotland - did well initially but lost to Georgia and ultimately failed.

Birmingham City - relegated twice. Left under a cloud.

Aston Villa - almost relegated and sacked. In charge less than a year.

Nottingham Forest - sacked after barely a month.

Genk - sacked after less than a year.

Zamalek - sacked after a couple of months.

 

Good managers don't get sacked repeatedly over a short period like that.

[917 191]

There are many parallels between now and 2002. McLeish seems to be a good motivator, or at least he was. Maybe I'm over-optimistic but I genuinely believe the players we have are not being used to their full potential. Joe Garner being a glaring example. He has been chasing the ball into the wide areas all season, when it is obvious he is a penalty-box striker.

Incidentally as for him "getting Birmingham relegated twice.." He did get them promoted back to the Premier League in 2009 and won the League Cup in 2011. But actually keeping a job in English football management for over 4 years is an achievement in itself.

[craig 5,199]

You should have just left it there.

 

 

And relegated them twice. Worth pointing out that this is a tournament few sides in England care about, particularly a few years ago. Bad managers and players sometimes win trophies.

 

 

5 of those trophies were with Advocaat's squad. I could have won those trophies with a team containing Klos, Numan, Ferguson, Arteta, De Boer etc. playing in Scottish football. He's playing in a 2 team league so winning trophies is inevitable, particularly when the squad are earning a fortune in wages and there's various internationalists to choose from.

 

 

And lost to Georgia and failed to qualify.

 

 

Strachan did it twice. McLeish's record overall in Europe was extremely poor. See Viktoria Zizkov.

 

 

He is a woeful manager. That's why he's out of work after being sacked from a job in Egypt. I've presented plenty facts and you can find them all below.

 

 

- Record consecutive losses to Celtic.

- 2 and and half months without a victory (record 10 games)

- Knocked out by Viktoria Zizkov in Europe with a team containing Klos, Amoruso, Ferguson, Arteta, Numan, De Boer etc.

- Third in the SPL with a squad on big money, below a team of Lithuanians.

- Numerous awful signings like Capucho, Emerson, Ostenstad, Mladenovic etc. All players on a fortune.

- Brutal football once he had his own players.

- Has been a complete disaster and repeatedly sacked ever since. Last season failing in Egypt!

 

Let's review his positions since leaving:

 

Scotland - did well initially but lost to Georgia and ultimately failed.

Birmingham City - relegated twice. Left under a cloud.

Aston Villa - almost relegated and sacked. In charge less than a year.

Nottingham Forest - sacked after barely a month.

Genk - sacked after less than a year.

Zamalek - sacked after a couple of months.

 

Good managers don't get sacked repeatedly over a short period like that.

 

If I can be bothered I may come back to this later.

 

Whilst you say that good managers don't get sacked repeatedly over a short period like that you could conversely also say that woeful managers don't win 7 trophies with one club including a treble (and seeing as you are banging on about doing it with Advocaat's team.... how did Advocaat do in his final season with that same squad ??? Oh yeah, nothing.... ). He then won 2 trophies with his own players, despite being continually outspent by Celtic.

 

Actually, you are completely wrong. There is absolutely NO WAY you would have won those trophies with those players - for a start they wouldn't respect you and secondly, I can guarantee that you don't know nearly as much about the game as you think you do - do you have your Pro License ? Do you know how to manage strong egos and adults acting like children or people who don't think they should be left out of the squad ? Heck, even Advocaat in his last season didn't win trophies with those players - yet here you are trying to down-play Eck;s achievements by over-selling yourself.

 

He also won the Carling Cup with that Birmingham team against an Arsenal team which was assembled with far greater resource.

 

I say again, seeing as you completely fail to compute.... you simply cannot be a woeful manager and still win trophies and take a team into the KO stages of the Champions League.

 

As for the sackings, you aren't even getting them factually correct so how can you possibly expect people to take you seriously ? He wasn't sacked at Forest - he left by "mutual consent" (and before you say that means sacked, in his case he wouldn't commit his future to Forest and was unhappy that they hadn't signed George Boyd. Hardly a sacking.

 

Even your Birmingham analogy is nonsense. "Left under a cloud" - by which you mean that Birmingham wanted to keep him but he quit ?

 

Scotland - 70% win rate. Beat France in France. Ultimately failed ? With a squad of players that haven't "succeeded" for almost 20 years - and he is a failure ? He did far better than any of his successors have. Hardly failure.

Birmingham - won the League Cup with a great deal lees resource than the team he beat in the Final. Board wanted him to remain, he quit - hardly leaving under a cloud

Aston Villa - sacked, indeed. The first one you have actually got correct. Gold star for you. What you are missing is were there extenuating circumstances surrounding his tenure ? Of course there were - Randy Lerner is clueless and made Villa completely rudderless - how have Villa fared since Eck left ? They've been awful, and they indeed ended up getting relegated - but not under Eck's watch.

Forest - as I've already told you, you got this completely wrong.

Genk - less than a year and you consider that enough time to put your stamp on a squad ? OK.

Zamalek - yes, sacked.

 

See, the issue for you is that when you cant even be factually correct your credibility is completely blown.

 

I would have far more sympathy and empathy for your position if you were using facts, or even showing balance in your assessment - you are completely discounting any silverware he won because it was either "someone else's squad" or "winning in Scotland is easy" or some other such nonsense. It doesn't fit your agenda so you need to tarnish it.

 

He DID win those trophies, he DID win a treble whilst up against a Celtic team spending more - and these facts mean that he simply cannot be, as you put it, a "woeful manager". He may even be a poor manager, but woeful is yet another one of your inaccurate superlatives.