Walter's league record

[Guest Jaffa_the_biscuit]

Absolute snooze-fest mate. Heard it all before. Was crap then is crap now.

 

Why this blind belief in PLGs is the messiah? Just because people regulalry preach it without backing it up does not make it so.

 

Also noone has ever answered which top manager takes a team several steps back before taking them forward? None. Just how bad would we have to be before he made us good again.

 

PLG was bad for Rangers. End of.

 

He did nothing to show that all his foreign genius and diet plans would've turned us from where he was taking us to some kind of European super-team like the blind faithful keep harping on about.

 

Frankly its embarassing to keep hearing this guff.

 

 

Snooze fest? What because you disagree with it?

 

 

Behave yourself.

 

 

We shall agree to disagree on this one mate.

[CammyF 6,781]

If you say so mate

 

There are many who don�´t share your views either.

 

But hey, lets stay with the tried and tested Scottish method, that in my 34 years being a football supporter has yielded one ECWC fo Aberdeen.

 

But as long as we win the spl

The spl won�´t be far off the Irish league in terms of level within a few years.

 

But to qualify for Europe, and the CL you have to win the league. So, in theory, we have to win the league consistantly to qualify for Europe. Kind of a catch 22 situation.

 

Is it acceptable to Rangers fans to finish 2nd and 3rd in the SPL as long as we are reaching the last 16 of the CL or UEFA Cup on a consistant basis?

 

Cammy F

[Super_Ally 0]

If you say so mate

 

There are many who don�´t share your views either.

 

But hey, lets stay with the tried and tested Scottish method, that in my 34 years being a football supporter has yielded one ECWC fo Aberdeen.

 

But as long as we win the spl

The spl won�´t be far off the Irish league in terms of level within a few years.

 

Can't be arsed to have a look now, but I doubt there are many small nations out there who've won a lot in Europe.

 

Comes down to a hell of a lot more than just a foreign approach to training and diet.

 

Didn't say I have a problem with the European methods.Just people's blind faith in the idea that PLG was the man to bring baout these changes.

 

Its piss easy to find reasons and facts to back up why PLG was not that man, it's a hell of a lot harder to provide any evidence or proof that he was. Yet still so many people jump aboard the PLG would've taken us palces band wagon.

[buster 0]

But to qualify for Europe, and the CL you have to win the league. So, in theory, we have to win the league consistantly to qualify for Europe. Kind of a catch 22 situation.

 

Is it acceptable to Rangers fans to finish 2nd and 3rd in the SPL as long as we are reaching the last 16 of the CL or UEFA Cup on a consistant basis?

 

Cammy F

We want to win the spl, not finish 2nd.

Next season we may or may not win it with WS, if they spend wisely then they�´ll be favourites.

We may have won it with PLG also, that we�´ll never know.

 

What I was getting at was we can win the spl but under WS we�´ll do NOTHING in europe.

Under PLG we would have had a chance to do something in europe.

 

After PLG we could have looked elsewhere and not to WS who is the past and left the club because he said he couldn�´t take it any further.

[buster 0]

Can't be arsed to have a look now, but I doubt there are many small nations out there who've won a lot in Europe.

 

Comes down to a hell of a lot more than just a foreign approach to training and diet.

 

Didn't say I have a problem with the European methods.Just people's blind faith in the idea that PLG was the man to bring baout these changes.

 

Its piss easy to find reasons and facts to back up why PLG was not that man, it's a hell of a lot harder to provide any evidence or proof that he was. Yet still so many people jump aboard the PLG would've taken us palces band wagon.

 

European Cup Winners

2003 - 2004 Porto »

1994 - 1995 Ajax

1990 - 1991 Red Star

1987 - 1988 PSV

1986 - 1987 Porto

1985 - 1986 Steaua

 

UEFA Cup Winners

2004 - 2005 CSKA Moskva

2002 - 2003 Porto

2001 - 2002 Feyenoord

1999 - 2000 Galatasaray

1991 - 1992 Ajax

1986 - 1987 Göteborg

1982 - 1983 Anderlecht

1981 - 1982 Göteborg

 

Blind faith in PLG NO,

more a want to give him a chance and repulsion that his main opposition to success was within Ibrox not on the pitch.

7 months !!!!

Where would Manchester Utd have been if they´d sacked Alex Ferguson back in the 80´s ?

 

For me though the worst thing was in decide on WS as his replacement.

The vision to bring in someone like PLG was good, but if the individual didn´t fit it or wasn´t allowed to work then bring someone similar to continue the work and get rid of the dissenters.

SDM is thinking short-term and this was shown up in January.

[calscot 0]

PLG -> 7 Months -> 17 points behind Celtic and out of both cups (I attribute the SC exit to him). Dropped something like 30 points in 23 games.

 

WS -> 3 months -> 4 more points than Celtic, dropped 4 points and 3 goals in 10 games, with 7 clean sheets.

 

How come WS didn't need loads of time with virtually the same team?

 

No Old Firm manager in history would have survived the run of results that PLG brought. It was unacceptable. If PLG had said that this would happen for him to build a team then I think the answer would have been "No thanks".

 

But the crucial point is that he didn't even say that, he predicted he'd win the league, so obviously bugger all was going to plan for him therefore his plan was flawed.

 

To say he would have advanced Rangers onto a higher level is laughable given the evidence. I think he made far too many crucial mistakes and dug himself a hole so deep he was never going to get out of it.

 

I think he could have taken Rangers to a new level IF he'd got a lot more right from the start, there was a window of opportunity but he missed it due to naivety, arrogance and sheer bloody mindedness.

 

The first thing any manager needs to do is build a solid unit that are hard to beat and who usually pick up 3 points from lesser teams. You don't build a winning team by putting on a bunch of gutless players who capitulate to the bottom of the table teams. That's how to build a losing team.

 

Winning breeds winning and Celtic are an example of that. When you win all the time you expect to win and that helps you win when you are up against it.

 

You start by building a team with a solid goalkeeper and no-nonsense defence, a midfield who hold onto the ball and a couple of strikers who can put the ball in the back of the net with regularity.

 

You also need to build a team spirit and have a leader on the park. The players should respect you but you have to earn that respect it's not for free.

 

The way I see it you can survive ok on meat and potatoes, and it's the first thing for which you have to work to put on your plate, but when you are guaranteed a supply of these basics, THEN you can think about making your food more interesting with spices and sauces.

 

You can't start living on sauce and spice and hope to add the meat and carbs a year later.

 

That's what PLG seemed to be trying to do. WS has come in and done the former and although the football isn't tasty at the moment it sures fills a hole and stops us from starving.

 

I think we'll be on bland but sustaining food for another season before Walter can afford to go to the spice market.

[buster 0]

PLG -> 7 Months -> 17 points behind Celtic and out of both cups (I attribute the SC exit to him). Dropped something like 30 points in 23 games.

 

WS -> 3 months -> 4 more points than Celtic, dropped 4 points and 3 goals in 10 games, with 7 clean sheets.

 

How come WS didn't need loads of time with virtually the same team?

 

No Old Firm manager in history would have survived the run of results that PLG brought. It was unacceptable. If PLG had said that this would happen for him to build a team then I think the answer would have been "No thanks".

 

But the crucial point is that he didn't even say that, he predicted he'd win the league, so obviously bugger all was going to plan for him therefore his plan was flawed.

 

To say he would have advanced Rangers onto a higher level is laughable given the evidence. I think he made far too many crucial mistakes and dug himself a hole so deep he was never going to get out of it.

 

I think he could have taken Rangers to a new level IF he'd got a lot more right from the start, there was a window of opportunity but he missed it due to naivety, arrogance and sheer bloody mindedness.

 

The first thing any manager needs to do is build a solid unit that are hard to beat and who usually pick up 3 points from lesser teams. You don't build a winning team by putting on a bunch of gutless players who capitulate to the bottom of the table teams. That's how to build a losing team.

 

Winning breeds winning and Celtic are an example of that. When you win all the time you expect to win and that helps you win when you are up against it.

 

You start by building a team with a solid goalkeeper and no-nonsense defence, a midfield who hold onto the ball and a couple of strikers who can put the ball in the back of the net with regularity.

 

You also need to build a team spirit and have a leader on the park. The players should respect you but you have to earn that respect it's not for free.

 

The way I see it you can survive ok on meat and potatoes, and it's the first thing for which you have to work to put on your plate, but when you are guaranteed a supply of these basics, THEN you can think about making your food more interesting with spices and sauces.

 

You can't start living on sauce and spice and hope to add the meat and carbs a year later.

 

That's what PLG seemed to be trying to do. WS has come in and done the former and although the football isn't tasty at the moment it sures fills a hole and stops us from starving.

 

I think we'll be on bland but sustaining food for another season before Walter can afford to go to the spice market.

Now the SC exit was PLG´s fault !!!!!

Does that mean Eck gets the blame for bad results this season :yawn:

 

If your saying the upheavel effected the team, look to who started it,

one Barry Ferguson

"Is that you Peter/Iain, got a great story for you if you can conduct a campaign against you know who".

The same man who got the story about the captaincy in the sunday rags the day of the OF match.

The same man who had a laugh and a joke with the celtic manager on the Ibrox pitch after the OF game, sending out a message or what.

The same man (captain ?) who took the players (professionals ?) to Newcastle for night out and went against "no drinking instruction" from club.

 

If you want a true transition period and change of footballing culture you have to be prepared for a little pain, it´s unreasonable to expect immediate success.

 

However the pain seemed to come from the fact that many players didn´t want to do it PLG´s way, hence lack of unity or team spirit in those games against the wee teams.

 

Rangers under Eck were in transition every season but you knew it was always just patching things up, not really going forward.

 

Walter can get the experienced boys in, same old tried an trusted methods but we will not go anywhere as a club, the youngsters will be very lucky if they get a chance and our budget means that quality will be in short supply.

We MAY win the spl in a couple of years but I reckon we´d have won it next season with PLG. Only my opinion.

 

With Walter we can FORGET europe, are you happy with that ?

Even Eck was better in europe than WS

I´ll be surprised if we get through CL qualifiers, if we get a half decent team we are on shaky ground.

 

Walter´s previous in the CL

-qualifier OUT, Sparta

-Gp. Stage, 2 wins and 4 draws

(qualifier was Polish team and Leeds, WS best european moment "british"opposition)

-qualifier OUT Levski

-qualifier OUT AEK

-Gp. Stage 3 draws and 3 defeats (qualifier was against Alania)

-Gp. Stage 1 win and 5 defeats (qualifier was against Anorthosis)

-qualifier OUT Gothenburg

 

Thats 3 wins in 18 games (group stage)

the rest we´ll forget.

[calscot 0]

I'm not going to get in a slagging match about Rangers managers. I agree the reason Walter left is that although he won the league every season till his last, he couldn't emulate the 92/93 season in the CL which raised expectations.

 

But under PLG it looked pretty dodgy that we'd even qualify for the qualifier...

 

I must say I'd rather win the league almost every year and have one pop at almost winning the CL every seven years than finish 3rd in the league and do not bad against pretty average UEFA competitors.

 

However, I think Smith has improved as a manager in European terms given his record for Scotland. He still hasn't got his own team at Rangers and you can't really compare the games against Osasuna in the latter stages with the teams we played in league stage. The Spaniards made pretty quick work of Leverkusen to get to the semi's, none of the previous teams we met are there.

 

PLG had a good run but it wasn't against the standard of the CL so praise where it's due but let's not get carried away.

 

If PLG failed to get the team on his side then that failure is his. That is one of the most important jobs as a manager.

 

DA lost the dressing room due to trying to control the players private lives too much and suffered the consequences and it only took Eck to come in to get a massive improvement. Eck didn't demotivate players like DA although he was pants at bringing in his own squad and wasted a few players by playing them out of position.

 

PLG banning parties and alcohol? Do you really think the players would respect him for that? There is nothing wrong with having a drink and enjoying yourself at appropriate times and although Walters team "drank together" if you ask the likes of Butcher and Gough they will tell you it wasn't before a game and in fact was usually after, and they didn't get blootered either.

 

You can't treat adults like kids and expect them to respect you - maybe in France, but not in Scotland.

 

His only way to get away with it was to bring in his own players - he brought in about 13, but how many were better than the players already there?

 

He failed again in that respect. If he brought in players who could do a job and get them doing it, winning games and challenging for the league, it would have been easy for him to drop Barry and sell him in January.

 

But Le Guen was in a fantasy world where the defence was fine and Letizi was a goalkeeper rather than a clown, where he could do without our top scorer and use Sebo instead. A strange place where he didn't need to bring in anyone in January.

 

The thing is to get time and patience as a manager you have to look like you know what you're doing and your average granny could see Rangers were crying out for a couple of decent centre halves and that one up front against Dunfermline just doesn't work.

 

I've said it before, if you have strange methods and succeed you look like a genius, if you have strange methods and fail, then you look like a fool. And boy has Walter made PLG look foolish.

 

PLG may yet be a great manager but when he came to Rangers he left his common sense behind in France. It's too valuable a commodity to leave behind.

[Super_Ally 0]

For me though the worst thing was in decide on WS as his replacement.

The vision to bring in someone like PLG was good, but if the individual didn´t fit it or wasn´t allowed to work then bring someone similar to continue the work and get rid of the dissenters.

SDM is thinking short-term and this was shown up in January.

 

Seems a slight change in opinion. You're dmitting then PLG was not a good idea. don't disagree. You could be right about WS oo, time will tell.

 

My annoyance is the OTT support for a man who was very poor for Rangers.

 

Boyd>>>>>>>>>>>>Sebo

 

Now

 

Walter>>>>>>>>>>>>>PLG

 

In an era when so many fans are angry at DM's reluctance to back the club, why are complete and utter dross getting wild backing and yet peopel who actually have some form of positive contribution to the club getting none.

 

Its beginning to look like the old bias of the foreign is better than scottish of the internet bears, regardless of what the facts say.

[calscot 0]

When you think about it there aren't many overly successful managers in foreign countries from their own who haven't had a shed load of money to spend.